Quote from: franky1 on November 09, 2018, 09:59:22 PM

Quote from: BuyBuyBitcoin on November 09, 2018, 08:20:56 PM

Why would this even matter while we are in such early days of bitcoin? It's obviously undervalued if you're investing long term and expect to have a decent return 5-10 years from now.

Quote from: pixie85 on November 09, 2018, 09:50:54 PM

If you're calculating it by comparing the prices of hardware you're not coming up with the real value but the lowest possible value that keeps miners mining. Why would the lowest value be the "real" value? You don't measure the real value of a car by the cost of parts and labor needed to make it. If we did that a lamborghini would be worth $50,000 instead of 500,000.

to answer you both:

value Vs price....

bitcoin is at what most would say is at great "value" right now. because the price is ABOVE a long tested VALUE. but not much.

take many things.
businesses tend to want to markup costs vs retail price at a 3x multiple. to cover labour bills and profit
(ya some get greedy and want more.. eg coffee costs pennies for ingredients but sell for over couple dollars 10x)

so if the acquisition(cost/base) VALUE is $5800 and the PRICE is $6400. thats not even 10%(0.1x), let alone 300%(3x) so people see bitcoin as very valued and at a good low PRICE to buy

however SELLERS see it under PRICED

the 300% markup retailers, industrials and manufacturers go by is normal..
100% to pay off the acquisition COST. 100% to cater for other expenses involved and 100% profit

consumers over the decades of retail psychology are usually happy and willing to pay out at 3x of a products cost for the convenience of not having to do the hard work of manufacturing things themselves.. its been like that since retail psychology began

even in bitcoin when costs since last year were $5800 or more. people were willing to pay upto $18k(3x markup) and then the desire slipped away at $20k

same goes for most things.

if you can work out the COST of something you can generally work out the zone of desire (as long as the 'product' has utility)

EG
if the PRICE went below $5800 its under VALUED
if the PRICE was in the $6k-$18k range. its in the 'valued range'
if the PRICE was in the $20k range. its in over valued

bitcoin is only 10% above value. but no where near over priced $18k+.
but value is subjective depending on which side..
the seller that wants $18k and the buyer that wants $6k
(value zone $6k-$18)
so $6400 is low value to seller but great value to buyer

(hope it makes sense.. i had a few drinks but tried best to keep my thoughts logical tonight)
in short: price and value are not the exact same numbers

The OP is saying it is overvalued now. Value is relative to what people are willing to spend TODAY.

It was over valued last year for where bitcoin sits within the global financial markets, that doesn't mean it isn't being undervalued currently this year.

IF you believe 1 BTC = $50k 10 years from now, every purchase up to that price is an expected gain.

IF you believe 1 BTC = $0 10 years from now then every purchase is an expected loss.

IF someone is trying to daytrade bitcoin and alts then they can go and speculate all they want on how to make a profit. That isn't what bitcoin is here to do. It's storing value and it will continue to do it for many years regardless of chatter about it being overvalued currently lol.