Quote from: jungle_dave on January 28, 2014, 06:18:35 AM

Bob, I don't think "you" are scamming us, I just think its stupid to hold out for a refund at this point as they are shipping. + we bought R2 in USD so why is it mentioned in the letter requesting a BTC refund?

R2 was paid in USD, R2B the upgrade module was paid in BTC.

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Second place, even if we tried to sue them we have no case, they would say that they are shipping batch 1.

No judge in the world would side with us (.)

This was forced on them by a huge effort by many unhappy buyers, with the threat of endless litigation.

We're not lawyers nor judges. We don't know that. Since you wanted more info, but we've tried to keep a lid on things so as not to tip HF:

We're opening a case in Texas instead of CA arbitration. Since they didn't meet their T&C and haven't responded to our Paralegal, legal counsel doesn't think we have to play by their rules. Texas is probably the most business friendly state in the country when it comes to laws, but it doesn't help you if you're a patent troll or some supplier that didn't meet the terms of their TOS.

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I was one of the first that said we should request a full refund, half the reason I even bought into this was due to the promise that we would be refunded in BTC for our original purchase (R1) only to find out at the last minute that would not be respected for myself and several other members.
In other words I and others got hashfasted. Thomas's reaction to valid requests for information and blanket
statements from DZ are the cause of my angry reaction and lack of trust.

DZ I appreciate your vote in your group, I too have permanent back injuries and have to care for a diabetic child who needs an insulin pump (unavailable) in a 3rd world country so my sympathy only goes so far. Thats not your problem but still, I feel for you and wish you the best.
You all made a corporate decision that I don't agree with, you should have said nothing about your re-payments if received so we can agree to disagree on that.

I fought the good fight for those that paid in USD/PP. At the end of all this, it may be a USD refund, it may be a BTC refund, but we fought on the behalf of all miners that trusted these companies. IANAL but there is hope in a full BTC refund as the Coinlab judgment with Alydian showed.

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/11/07/judge-orders-coinlab-to-pay-up-in-bitcoin/

The growth we had has meant that we have to cover our asses. We've already seen what happens when we guaranteed hashrate in R9-12 for that experimental prototype Black Arrow Bitfury Bullet Run and for some reason, some people took that as an assumption that we guarantee hashrate for *all* ASIC miners, even though we all know these miners are all prototypes and not polished products.

We don't guarantee hashrate unless it's a specific mining contract with implicit SLAs. I don't personally agree with the refund policies in place for R1-4, but the democracy set up and sharing of work, means I have to abide by decisions I may not necessarily agree with.

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There has been a serious lack of communication with this whole story. DZ you are to blame in part, have to go there.
I have been on both sides of this type of situation before, only difference is the small sum of money we are talking about here.

Fair enough. As pointed out, we didn't want to tip off HF as to our legal strategy until now.

I've been working for mostly free for the co-op for over a year to get you guys these deals and I apologize for being slow to answer PMs or every forum thread, but life happens whether we want it to or not. I mean, look at John K., he left everyone in a lurch and he straight up had people's BTC just sitting in his wallet for months. The point is: we have lives outside of these forums, and life does still happens in meatspace.

I'm feeling a little better now, but I was messed up and trying to deal with workcomp hearing prep in the middle of dealing with old injuries flaring up and the HF legal prep. I'll be catching up to PMs later today.

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I would consider keeping Thomas in a basement if you want to communicate with investors (not just me that thinks this). If it was me, as a former IT director and current director of an international project I would fire him on the spot but lucky for thomas thats your choice.

Well, we're business partners. I'm not his boss and have never treated him like an employee. I can't speak for his occasional grumpiness but I do know that he works from the miner facility mostly on a smartphone, so the answers tend to be short and sound curt. He could either be accessible most of the day/night or give long answers only at night.

Personally: I think he needs a vacation where he's not answering the same questions over and over, and to maybe delegate more of the answering of those kinds of questions.

Quote from: thomas_s on January 27, 2014, 04:57:55 PM

Quote from: firsttimeuser on January 27, 2014, 01:46:40 PM

Quote from: Bakal on January 27, 2014, 08:43:06 AM

Hi! any news?

thank you

http://hashfast.com/shipping-update-batch-1_jan23/
but our coop have no news no updates from the "leaders"

We've shown them we do not want the miners and only want the BTC refund as we were originally promised.

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Thomas, This is an unacceptable communication.

This should have read....

Hello Bakal ( makes it look like you care)
We have attempted many times to enter into dialog with Hashfast, we have sent them numerous communications, emails, attempted to call, skype but unfortunately they refuse to enter into any type of communication with our administration. This has forced us to take up legal councel who has entered into contact with hashfast and force a court action in order to get a full refund for our group members. We appreciate your patience in this matter and will try to resolve this as promptly as possible.
Thank you for your patience, we will update ......

See! This way you don't look like a rank amateur snot nose kid.

Hashfast should be contacted personally, I dont like there equipment offer any more then you but we have no choice for batch 1 orders.

For the Sierra orders you might have a leg to stand on and if you can all the power to you.

Fix this mess

I'm only human. I'm not a deity. I'm trying to fix this mess *and* work for the will of the majority. I admit it takes a toll on me too to have to be in the middle of all this. I wish these miners had been mining for months. I want people to get along. I want customers to be happy. It's a role I created but I admit it does get uncomfortable to have to be a mediator sometimes.

To wit, for R1-4:

- I *still* have 1.14 ASICminer shares that John K. is *still* holding as collateral for what were supposed to be R1 miner payouts. They were worth $500 at the time I sent them to him as a "Surety Bond" for payouts. I don't even want to *think* about all the dividends I've lost out on since then, but it's a nice fraction of a BTC.

- I spent $525 mostly out of my own pockets for what was supposed to be the R1 UPS via philipma1957 because I didn't account for UPS costs in the AT COST Group Buy shares; which as at cost, were an innovation at that time in August.

- Along with Thomas and -R- paid hundreds so far for legal counsel on the HF impasse and failure to deliver on explicit promises.

- Would've pocketed a mere 0.25% Management Fee for R1-4 as my share of management fees.

I'm a highly paid IT engineer and you guys have been getting my services for half a year in my free time almost for free (actually for free for the reasons listed above); the management fees I made in 6 months are less than the donations I've made on behalf of these Rounds). I spent a ton of effort working with the attorneys to get the details straight.

I'm not sure what more you'd have me to as I'm in the most Red out of anyone for the reasons above. I put a lot of money down to be able to deliver you guys these at-cost deals, and I continue to put money down, along with the rest of the leaders, to try to get legal recourse to get full BTC refunds which is what the majority wanted overwhelmingly.

There isn't/wasn't a better GB setup/value on the forums available at that time and everything would've been peachy if they had just simply delivered on time or even a little late. HashFast tricked us, but what pisses me off even more is how they've turned miners against other miners.