Quote from: Lionel on November 24, 2018, 03:19:44 PM

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If the avg fees are almost 0.40$ now that the tx volume is very low, imagine what can it be if we get back to the same situation as last winter.
Segwit or not, that is what i read from the stats on that site

p.s. maybe you were talking about off-chain only, while the linked site only takes into account on-chain.
But are offchain transactions easy to use for non tech savvies ?
Is that solution already implemented?
And if so, post a link thanks

I read in the posts here an underlying assumption, that bitcoin was developed to make it possible for unlimited coffees be timestamped on a blockchain. I think this was never the goal, and doesn't even make sense. So the use cases for technical or "non tech savvy" people might vary. My point of view is, that "non tech savvy" people should have at least an understanding of what they use ("a bitcoin wallet in a bitcoin universe"). This is fairly easy to use, but has it's limitations. You don't need to understand the underlying technology, but you should know, what game you are playing. One cannot expect to use bitcoin, and have same conditions as FIAT money. This would be dumb.

I do not understand fully the logic of bitcoinfees site. I would go this route:

- I buy a coffee with bitcoin, then I don't care too much on the fees, and send a std tx with one Satoshi per byte, at 4000 US$ a Satoshi is 0.00004 US$. Multiplied with the length of the tx (~300 Bytes) one would get 0.012 US$, or 1.2 cents.

- alternativly, if there is s.th. of low value, that I repeatedly order, I would use lightning. Then I have an "open channel" tx: this is not time critical, as it is done only once (maybe even two or three channels) - so I could open a channel with s.th. between 10 and 50 Satoshi/Byte.

- I buy something valuable in the range of 1000 US $. I want to make sure tx goes through within half a day, cause delivery is usually next day. Half a day is ~72 blocks, so I look into actual statistics of my full node (or https://jochen-hoenicke.de/), and I see there are several "low" level peaks per hour, and all is "fairly blue" - so I choose 10 Satoshi/Byte.

- I want to do some regular trading or exchange of amounts, therefor I transfer Satoshis/BTCs into a side channel. I open a transaction (similiar to the lightning) for a single time, and from there I'm on a different channel, and fees on bitcoin blockchain get less relevant...

As answered by ETFbitcoin, there are still "annoying weakness" (*like*), yes, I think this is true. All is still new, and as you state, probably not that easy to use, especially when going to side chains. It is hard to say, when maturity is achieved.

So yes, "for non tech savvies", maybe not the immedeate solution. For these people there is BCH (or ABC or unlimited or whatever it is now). And one shouldn't forget Ethereum, which also allows for "higher throughput" (aka tx per block per hour).

Oh, yes, both off-chain solutions are implemented. For sure there is a whitepaper for lightning (http://lightning.network/docs/), and lots of links on the net (and here in the forum). To start your own lightning node: https://medium.com/@dougvk/run-your-own-mainnet-lightning-node-2d2eab628a8b. Also interesting the graphs: https://rompert.com/recksplorer/

On the liquid side chain: https://blockstream.com/2018/10/10/liquid-launch/