Quote from: CoinCube on December 09, 2018, 09:14:35 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on December 09, 2018, 01:53:38 PM

Why are to misdirecting the conversation? Who said anything about materialism? I said objective facts. It is not my problem that our reality is material.

I am simply highlighting your self-imposed miosis. You base your determination of objective facts on your materialism yet refuse to consider challenges to that materialist foundation.

Your concerns about religious tyranny in a theocratic state are of course valid. Humans corrupt every institution we partake in and vesting ultimate state power in any centralized church run by man can lead to no outcome other then eventual corruption of said church and tyranny. The founders of the US understood this well which is why they both guaranteed religious freedom and prohibited an official state religion in the first amendment of the constitution.

Quote from: af_newbie on December 09, 2018, 02:14:06 PM

Our morality should come from the humanity that is within us. We should burn ALL scriptures and move on as critical thinking human beings.

Religion is evil at its core.

You appear to have bought into the progressive delusion that humans are basically good and if we all just embrace our inner humanity we can all sing songs together in harmony.

The reality is that humans are not inherently good. We are innately infused with great evil. That ultimately is part of the message of the Old Testament you so misunderstand. It tells us that all humans even the best of us are inherently flawed and capable of great evil. It also lays out a framework via which said evils can be mitigated and perhaps someday rectified.

You are already on record as in favor of forcibly removing children from the homes of religious parents and placing them in re-education camps. Now you want book burnings too? You will make a good foot soldier when the next tyranny rises its head.

Quote from: af_newbie on December 09, 2018, 02:14:06 PM

The year is 2018. Earth is not flat, it is billions of years old, nobody created the universe or life on Earth that we know of, life evolved and continues to evolve. Anyone who denies these facts is delusional or simply ignorant.

You sound like one of the scientists who loudly proclaimed space was full of Luminiferous Aether or the confident proponent of Phrenology standing tall with his tape measure.

The reality is that your firm foundation of facts are not nearly as certain as you proclaim.

1. Earth is not flat.

The entire universe including the Earth might be flat.
Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe
https://m.phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html

2. Earth is billions of years old.

Time itself may be an illusion and the age of the earth depends on your frame of reference.
TIME is an ILLUSION
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYZQxMowBsw

3. Nobody created the universe or life on Earth.

This is your religion and your conclusion has not been proven by science nor does it have anything to do with science.

The difference between you and I is the way we view reality.

To me, the reality is based on objective observations confirmed by carbon and silicon-based observers. In my world, fictional characters do not exist or exhibit any influence or power. The unknown remains unknown and is not part of my reality. I don't lose sleep over the unknowns.

In your world, the reality consists of what is observable and the unknown which you make it known and part of your physical reality. In your world, fictional characters are alive and well, the supermen exhibit their might, influence every action and thought you make. Pregnant virgins remain virgins, the dead can become alive again, winged horses exist and can fly to space, and people are alive after they die. In your world there are no unknowns, everything has an answer, the whole world is coherent and understood by you.

Your worldview is the basis for your delusion. You need this delusion to function in this world as it provides a psychological comfort for you. You cannot bare an idea that something is not known and you invent answers to feed your insecurities.

You call me a materialist, I would say I am an objective observationalist.

As for humans being bad, well, most of us are. We use our moral standard established by the societies we live in. Good people innately know the moral rules and help establish the rules for the rest of their societies to follow. Some of us are born without that moral compass and need guidance from our society or community. Some of us break those rules anyway and become outlaws. Adopting rules established for the Bronze Age societies is as bad as having no moral rules. The leaders who wrote those moral rules would not last a day in our society. They would be arrested and thrown in jail for life.

Our morals evolve over time, what was considered moral few centuries ago is not moral any more.