Quote from: BADecker on December 11, 2018, 11:44:02 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on December 11, 2018, 08:59:51 PM

Quote from: BADecker on December 11, 2018, 02:13:40 PM

Unfortunately, religious organizations don't know the answers in a logical way. Their faith is logical (because we all live by faith; nobody can see an instant into the future), but they don't use it to logically find out the answers. And they take it out on people who use logic.

The closer we get to micro machines, the more we find out that operations in the universe (and especially life) are super micro machines in the extreme. We use them as such. We are applying DNA to computers to make them "think" better. We are using DNA natural machines with man made machines: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/synthetic-biology-building-machines-from-dna/ and https://www.cell.com/chem/pdf/S2451-9294(16)30111-5.pdf and many more if you search for them.

The question we seem to be ignoring is, who or what made these natural machines and the machine of nature? Evolution and Big Bang are nice ideas, but they are sadly lacking in real life application. The thing we see in machines is, machine makers. So, who or what made the machines of nature and the universe?

Forget the word "God." Forget, also, the silly notion that stuff simply springs into being all by itself. We don't have any example of real spontaneity happening anywhere. Rather, look at science and see the machines, and then apply this kind of thinking to the idea of machine making. Who or what made the machines of the universe. Whoever or whatever made the machines of nature had super-great ability.

If you ignore the machine maker(s) of nature, or that there could be any such thing(s), you are turning away from science and what science is discovering and using... that nature is made up of machines, and is collectively a gigantic machine. In addition, you are turning away from the kind of logic that made you question the nuns.

Cool

I am an engineer, I would never design nature the way it is. No engineer would. - No engineer is smart enough to even begin to seriously think about how to design something like nature.

Nature is more like a wild, self-evolving energy monster, that eats everything in its path, releasing matter and energy that forms other monsters. There is absolutely no design in it. Energy conversion, that is about it. - All of nature operates through the laws of physics, by cause and effect. Therre is no evolution beyond the change that C&E provides.

There is an appearance of design to an untrained eye because one looks through a very small time window without understanding what came before and why. Thanks to Biology we have a pretty good handle on how life evolved over time. - Microscopic C&E is a rather large window. Adaptation, like-begets-like and simple change fit life way better and easier than evolution does.

We are on an energy yo-yo cycle that started with the Big Bang and will most likely end with the Big Crunch, and the cycle will repeat itself with a different set of physical constants. The process will repeat itself until a new, stable universe will be formed with physical constants suitable to sustain observers. - Big Band and Big Crunch are fun science fiction. Neither takes into account more than a particle of the reality that exists.

Nature is cruel, unforgiving, but pretty cool in its own way. - Like when a doctor doesn't have any control over broken bones mending, and skin growing back together, but nature does it?

There are a lot of unknowns in nature. Science uncovers and solves them one by one. - And there are so many that a thousand years won't give modern science enough time to solve more than a smattering of them.

So don't jump to the "magician did it" answer when you don't know what the unknown is, never mind how it came about. - But that's essentially what some scientists do when they believe Big Bang and Evolution are real without any proof for them.

And for fuck's sake stop the "Judeo-Christain ideology is the answer to everything" BS. If we stuck following it, we would still be hungry and wet in some caves, wiping our asses with leaves, waiting for the Sun to come up. - Thank Goodness for the Judeo-Christian ideology. It's the only thing that keeps you from being "hungry and wet in some" cave, "wiping" your ass "with leaves, waiting for the Sun to come up." Christianity is based on Judaism, and together they are the way to eternal life.

Religion does not solve anything, it just takes away your money and your time. It makes you emotionally dependent on it and blinds you so that you cannot see the world the way it really is.

Since you know this about religion, get away from you faith-based science that has nothing to back it up other than speculation... before you turn it into a religion any more than you have already.

Cool

As always, you leave me speechless.

The education system has failed you.