Quote from: nutildah on January 02, 2019, 05:57:38 AM

Have you transacted in BTC lately? The median fee is around 8 cents. Not exactly "expensive."

https://www.blockchain.com/charts/transaction-fees-usd?timespan=30days
$48,000 - $125,000 a day
https://www.blockchain.com/charts/n-transactions?timespan=30days
226,000 - 300,000 a day
=21cents - 41cents a transaction

as for "not exactly expensive". im guessing your ignorant to the part of the planet where under 20cents is an hours labour
think rationally.
if people have to pay an hours labour just in fees. they wont see an advantage of it compared to mpesa and other things.
if it costs more an hours labour just to vault up crypto old bankerer-esq co-sign business models.. why bother

Quote from: Herbert2020 on January 02, 2019, 06:08:23 AM

second layer

by you calling it that. just shows how little you have learned in the last 2 years+ of chances to research the reality.
so i doubt pointing you in the direction of
multiple ways to scale BITCOIN(not other networks)
showing you LN's flaws
would convince you..
seems too many people are stuck just wanting LN positive promotional material to be spread about

i have travelled the world, and instead of carrying around a tin can of pink paint to draw fluffy clouds. i actually listen to normal peoples real thinking of stuff.(aswell as tenical people.. but the main thing is listening to people that LN wants to adopt)
you would be surprised at how many people and businesses i have got to adopt BITCOIN(not other networks) by revealing the negatives and positives of both bitcoin and other networks.

those who only spew out the HOPES of positives, are the ones that end up just sounding like snake oil salesmen

i also do my own research away from the fluffy cloud promotional material of buzzwords and actually look behind the curtain and look under the rug to see whats hiding and not being said..
i think critically about the realistic stuff. not just hopes and prayers and dreams of the over promised promotional material.

but if you read my last posts 4tb hard drives are not millions of dollars. nodes wont/dont have to be servers
99.9% of LN users are and never were even going to be fullnode users. so dont even attempt to play the fullnode card.
bitcoin doesnt need 99.9% of users being fullnodes either

but bitcoin does let users have 100% control to spend funds to any address without worry of:
if others will route raid their funds
is the destination online at same time as the route at the same time as the co-signer.
amungst other issues LN will always have

to all those who still have all hopes on LN
here is chrisdecker. one of the lead LN developers himself saying this
https://youtu.be/8lMLo-7yF5k?t=540

..
as for SCALING bitcoin. there are many many ways that wont cause fee increases nor the empty argument of "gigabytes by midnight"

funny part segwit is not a scaling thing.
you cant re-segwit a segwit.
segwit is not better at byte per tx compared to pre sgwit.
segwit has not and wont get passed a 600k a day transaction count,(numbers known about since 2010)
segwits real purpose was to have a tx format to be a gateway that makes bitcoin able to vault funds up so that the separate network called LN can peg 12 decimal payment tokens to. (litecoin, vertcoin and others done so too. so LN is not a "bitcoin" sole feature/layer) its a separate network for multiple coins