Quote from: Spendulus on January 08, 2019, 04:02:19 PM

Quote from: ATMD on January 08, 2019, 07:33:57 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on January 07, 2019, 10:41:00 PM

Quote from: ATMD on January 07, 2019, 02:55:16 PM

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So there was not nothing after all. There was something called undefined.

Is this something eternal? Is it always in existence, has no point of origin?

At this time, dimensions are defined. Time is defined. Therefore, we exist and can discuss these things. Science cannot and will not address the situation prior.

I don't care if religious people want to speculate about it, but the scientific view would be that no discussion was possible about a universe totally undefined, without time or dimensions.

It's possible to be in conflict with science. For example, suppose a person claimed that green rabbits ruled the Universe before the beginning of time. The scientist would reply, no, that's contrary to Undefined. That's impossible. The green rabbits could only exist after the beginning of time and space.

Keep in mind that historical concepts of infinite, finite, forever, eternal and so forth, should not be expected to be as precise as modern words. That's okay, really. They did a pretty darn good job with what they had.

I agree, science cannot and will not address the situation prior because whatever existed prior to the universe must have existed outside of space and time.

Theists believe that God exists beyond space and time, while atheists believe something undefined exists beyond space and time.

No to the green rabbits / God outside or beyond space and time.

However you might note, it makes no practical difference whatsoever.

It would be good also noticing you yourself say yes to the green rabbits based on the way you've explained we came to existence.