Quote from: suchmoon on February 14, 2019, 05:50:37 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 14, 2019, 05:30:28 AM

There is nothing wrong with my tiny handful of negative ratings left. I wonder what I would find if I went through you ratings since we are talking about hypocrisy here?

I'm not the one advocating some new standards so not sure where you see the hypocrisy.

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 14, 2019, 05:30:28 AM

I am confused because I refuse to let you hijack this thread and make it what YOU wish it was about? There is nothing wrong with my ratings, even if there was THIS is not the forum for it, perhaps you should move your complaints to reputation as you like to say so much any time some one brings up ratings YOU DON'T want to discuss.

Ok. You don't want to discuss what's in the OP. Weird but ok.

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 14, 2019, 05:30:28 AM

Does everyone see the same pattern here of every time some one tries to point out the flaws and abuse in this system and tries to advocate for a change toadies like Suchmoon come out of the wood work to constantly derail the threads. The trust system needs an objective standard of evidence of theft, violation of contractual agreement, or violation of applicable laws.

All I said is that you should lead by example. I find it weird that you want standards but you don't want to adhere to them yourself. Anyways, enjoy the discussion with somebody else who will hopefully have better luck understanding what it is that you're discussing here.

None of your horse shit derailing was in the OP no matter how much you are going to pretend it was. This is the same pattern you play out any time some one is critical of the current trust system status quo, only you can't just easily dismiss me as a scammer like every other person who brings these issues up is. As a result you need to pick thru my tiny number of ratings to find something to blow out of proportion to distract from the fact that the trust system is counter productive and widely open to abuse. Now that you have dropped your turds on the thread and you have run out of ammo you are now forced to move along with your further dismissive comments on the way out never once having addressed the actual arguments made, just the way you like it. I have been leading by example, by standing up to power hungry little toads like you for years regardless of how much harassment results.

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 31, 2019, 09:36:06 PM

Quote from: actmyname on January 31, 2019, 08:30:42 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 31, 2019, 08:24:32 PM

I would call that a fairly accurate summary of what I am advocating for yes. The rest here is just noise from people who don't like the idea that they will no longer be all powerful and above criticism around here.

Then I'm not sure where we went wrong.

Let's avoid the tirade of drama and talk about improving DefaultTrust as a system. The individuals can come later (or in separate discussions). Agreed?

There was a post by someone when explaining negative trust. Paraphrasing here, but I believe this is critical: "Is the negative feedback worth ruining the user's reputation?"

This should be mainly for preventing the degradation of the forum. Scams, egregious abuse of forum systems, etc.

I don't usually send out negative feedback based on dissenting opinions. (if there is feedback that I sent of which you disagree with, please let me know.)
There are some cases in which consistent blatant lying that is not outright scamming (i.e. does not involve any monetary transaction) might deserve a strongly-worded neutral or at worst, a negative.^*

_{*may not have actually occurred yet}

I think you will find when addressed rationally and with intellectual honesty I will respond in kind. There are a lot of people who go around here who only speak the language of intimidation, inquisition, and relishing their authority over others over anything else. It is easy to say just lets agree, but the people who will continually derail don't have the principle to even honor that agreement as they have no incentive to. I am not aware of anything you personally have been up to that I object to, I am sorry if it sounded as if I was addressing you personally.

As I stated in previous posts we need this core set of principles because it is what will ultimately achieve those goals of preventing abuse, scams, and general degradation of the forum. It is not rocket science. Look at any society without a rule of law and see how it is controlled. This forum is not quite that chaotic, but operates under systematic arbitrary enforcement.

Arbitrary enforcement results in not only confusion of what the rules are but creates a feedback loop of disregard for the "rule of law" or observing rules on the forum in general. You combine this with a small handful of cliques that have made an industry out of going after scams or manufacturing them to then "bust" them with various levels of complication, and now you have direct incentive for abuse without recourse for those abused. This again breeds disrespect for any authority around here, as well again creates a feedback loop of driving away constructive users who simply didn't understand the arbitrarily enforced patchwork of rules, while actual scammers are back in seconds with a bought account.

There needs to be a standard of evidence for negative ratings of some kind of documentation of theft, violation of contractual agreement, or violation of applicable laws. This would cut out SO MUCH of the bullshit we are seeing right now. The sky will not fall. The forum will continue. There will be less drama, more cooperation, more constructive users, less scamming (because they can't hide in the noise), and most importantly people can enjoy the peace of mind of generally BEING LEFT THE FUCK ALONE if they haven't harmed anyone else as is traditional in this community.

Quote from: TECSHARE on February 02, 2019, 01:12:06 PM

Quote from: bones261 on February 02, 2019, 12:49:49 PM

Quote from: cryptohunter on February 02, 2019, 12:24:53 PM

Neutral trust with a warning the account "may be" changed hands is enough.

The only problem with Neutral trust is if a person has a zero trust rating, many people don't even bother to check the trust comments. Perhaps a message under trust to "click here to read peer comments" should be warranted.

That is the issue. The trust system is supposed to be a simple guide for noobs right? Unfortunately though no system is free from exploitation. We should be encouraging users to use the green and red numbers as a QUICK REFERENCE, then to do their own due diligence before trading. By overly applying the ratings we are just creating signal noise and confusion allowing this kind of manufactured crime of suspicion creating complete ambiguity as to who is actually a scammer and who is not. The net is too wide so you catch too many innocents, or for very petty reasons, people notice, then the whole system becomes useless for its intended purpose.

We need a standard of theft, violation of contractual agreement, or violation of applicable laws for leaving a negative rating, otherwise it can never be a useful quick reference as explained above. Even if it WAS a good quick reference, teaching noobs to just use those numbers and not do due diligence is feeding them into a wood chipper of fraud by teaching them to trust a system that can be manipulated. Furthermore these trust police feed into this feeling by giving the perception that they actively stop scams.

I am sorry but this whole thing that has arisen here is what we call a clusterfuck and it needs to stop. I can't even imagine how much more we could have accomplished if all of this energy was redirected towards constructive things rather than playing cops and robbers and ripping apart the foundation of the cohesiveness of the culture of the forum itself.