Quote from: franky1 on March 08, 2019, 07:37:46 AM

Quote from: fxsurfer on March 07, 2019, 06:52:44 PM

When a bank grants a loan, the loan contract is shown both, as an increase in banks assets because the bank now has an additional claim on borrowers, and as a positive entry on the liability side of the banks balance sheet, because fiat money owners now have an additional claim on the bank. Given the fact that a claim is property in the fullest sense of that term, that it has its own value, and it may be sold, transferred, mortgaged, and inherited, it follows that dollars, euros or pounds are actual things with intrinsic value.

fiat money is as you said in previous posts. just an entry in a database.
the contract terms are not saved to that bank database. fiat money is just digits in a database

the rules of granting a loan are the rules of decision of those maintaining the databas. much like the bitcoins consensus protocol decides which block is acceptable

what happens with the units of account of a database are not shown in the database. again the consensus of a bank. the consensus protocol of bitcoin and the humans involved decide the value and reason to move the unit of account from one entity to another

bitcoin however is actually better than the banks fiat database because bitcoin can define rules in code rather than relying on paper/human thought. EG smart contracts can set utility/function to the units of account. even the very simple things such as a block reward remains locked(maturing) for 100 further blocks ahead of it before being spendable. thus making bitcoins unit of account more than just an entry in a database. but something of function/utility.

bitcoin too can do all the function of fiat. it can be transfered, the reason for the transfer can be for the same human decision as fiat, for being sold against products and services, inheritance. and yes even used to pay for a house. it can be escrowed and contracts set up that people then need to pay with other financial sources to repay the bitcoin payment of the house. just like mortgages

Quote from: fxsurfer on March 07, 2019, 06:52:44 PM

What that means in practice is that borrowers have two options

loan agreements are just protocol rules. much like bitcoin consensus rules. but its funny how your now diverting away from talking about the fiat itself and now talking about rules of human decision outside the context of the unit of account database

Quote from: fxsurfer on March 07, 2019, 06:52:44 PM

And thats the beauty of fiat money. Since it comes from debt, and debt is a legally enforceable liability that must be settled, the demand for dollars, euros or pounds will exist as long as this type of money exists. In other words, even if people completely abandon fiat money as means of exchange, the borrowers are still forced to use it until all their debt is paid off,

no they are not forced to use it until all their debt is paid off
if i have british debt. i can simply get on a plane. go to america and use dollars and just leave the british debt.simple choose never to touch a pound ever again
debts can be written off
i can live on bitcoin, euro or any other currency. i can even live like a hermit and forrage for food. or do manual labour in exchang for barter for food/lodgings and avoid all fiat currency all together
this is because the fiat database unit of account is as you say just numbers on a database

Quote from: fxsurfer on March 07, 2019, 06:52:44 PM

since non-acceptance of fiat money wont make borrowers obligations go away. That means that ultimately, fiat money will provide its owners with actual things in the form of goods, services or property of borrowers, just like the gold certificates provided their owners with actual gold. To put it another way, in the past, fiat money was backed by gold, today, it is backed by the assets of the banks and by land, cars, homes and other property of the borrowers.

So no, loans are not just entries into a bank database. Loans are both rights and obligations. Bitcoin on the other hand is just entry into a database, i.e. - NOTHING.

a blockreward is just an entry in a database. but the bitcoin consensus rules are the rights and obligations that make that blockreward 'granted' to exist. learn about consensus rules and orphans/rejects. it might surprise you
EG a block reward may only exist if it shows it has performed a minimum task and met rules. only blocks meting thos obligations get the right to have a blockrward granted to exist.

same as fiat is just an entry in a database. but the banker rules are the rights and obligations that make that fiat 'granted' to exist

atleast grasp the basics of economy

Well, you can keep repeating your nonsense but this won't change the fact that fiat money is DEBT(right and obligation), while entry in a database is just means to expres the size of this right and obligation. Your Bitcoin on the other hand is entry in a database that expresses the size of NOTHING.