Quote from: JollyGood on March 20, 2019, 01:49:59 AM

Quote from: RHavar on March 20, 2019, 12:08:36 AM

Quote from: BillyBurns on March 19, 2019, 10:49:49 PM

I don't appreciate you abusing the Trust/merit system, if you look at your trust system we can see that you have given almost a hundred people a bad rating in a short time. Abuse of the system can be harmful to the community. I have expressed my concern to the moderators several times. I can only hope others will see your abuse and express their concerns.

I don't think you can really abuse the trust system. It's basically a glorified comment section. No one really looks at it, or pays attention -- I wouldn't worry about it. (Although I agree about the multiple threads, it's a bit annoying).

That said, I find your support of betking a bit perplexing. I looked through your post history, and you're clearly a reasonable person. You've been aggressively promoting beking for 3(?) years (with even your profile link to "betking.io"), but your only affiliation you say is that you're an investor? So did you invest in the ICO? And if so, did you get the same treatment as other investors?

Because honestly, I don't think a single reasonable person can conclude it was fair. Doing my best to not sensationalize:

The ostensible purpose of the ICO was to raise funds for bankroll and site development/software. Despite raising several million, the bankroll remains paltry and does (or did?) even require additional bankroll investors. And for software costs, Dean has been remarkably frugal. Even going as far as ripping Daniel off for 2 btc to save on costs (even despite knowing it would greatly harm his reputation, which is what casinos live and die on)

Dean personally profited by the terms of the ICO when the price of bitcoin went up (by pegging the token to USD, while holding btc). I agreed it was fair, because under the same terms Dean would personally lose if the price of bitcoin went down. When I inquired about how that is possible, and at what price bitcoin would need to drop to make that untenable, he said "even at $1" he could do it, because he has system in place to automatically sell bitcoin and would always honor the buy backs.

If you have the time, I'd appreciate some insight on how you think this is not just outright scamming?

--

On a more subjective note, I re-read through my conversations with Dean and am 99% sure that Dean tried to use his reputation (just before canceling the buybacks) to scam me out of a ~million dollars. He made up some story about having fiat denominated debts (poker debts, he told me), and having bitcoin. And needed a loan. Right from the very start, I told him I am happy to do so but I have a hard-requirement of not exposing myself to counterparty risk (e.g. i'd want him to escrow some bitcoin as collateral). Each time he would come up with new terms they would not meet the requirements and leave me vulnerable to being scammed. Then he finally agreed to preliminary terms, I went to the trouble of securing some highly respected and well-known people who could escrow. And then he changed his mind and wanted to self-escrow. Or then he agreed to collateral conditions, but wanted to use BKB (and once again promised that buy-back would never stop). Also all the while he was offering insane interest rates. There's no way this was done in good faith.

But I do agree that my accusation is "he tried to scam" is extremely weak, so I'd rather if you could (since Dean refuses to give a proper response) to how you think what he did do to ICO investors was anything but scamming.

What an excellent post from RHavar. I had to UNIGNORE that user just to read his reply to you, I wanted to see what he would come back with.

Within minutes of my making a post he posts after me but after nearly 90 minutes of your post he finally replied with what is written below but he made no mention that scammer Dean Nolan tried to dupe you out a whopping $1 million. I think he consulted with scammer Dean Nolan before posting since he has admin rights on the betking scam website.

- He made no mention of whether 500 BTC, 2250 ETH & 425 LTC are in the bankroll or not

- He made no mention of the 20 BTC +EV that winners not paid in the 2018 Christmas Wager

- He made no mention of the BKB tokens from the 100 million that were supposed to provide for new games and a new website but did neither

- He made no mention of specifics but generalised claiming scammer Dean Nolan was not perfect and was working hard to right some wrongs Roll Eyes

Oh well, almost exactly what I expected from him so he is back on IGNORE again.....

Quote from: BillyBurns on March 20, 2019, 01:25:51 AM

This is where a interesting conversation starts. I was a ico investor and I have received no special treatment. My 1st reaction was anger. As for Dean being frugal you must have not been around when he was doing daily tournaments and freerolls with overlay day after day in poker tournaments. Also is reported that pro gamblers were crushing the sportsbook due to the favorable odds. According to what I have heard is that Dean was buying back tokens from people who were unhappy with the ico (did not know this was occurring). So some investors were able to exit without a loss and even a profit from BKB investment on site.

Is renegging on a promise a scam? That is a question that I think each person can define differently. Now if intent was good but methodology was bad is it a outright scam? Do you think Dean intent was for this to occur? Do you think Bitconnect had good intentions? Are they both outright scams? What if that system in place failed and it was impossible to fulfill? Mistakes were made to get to this point there is no denying that, but to get where those mistakes began, plenty of sound decisions were made beforehand and many previous investors ( many ico investors) made out a lot of bitcoin. This obviously doesn't justify it because yes some of us got screwed (hopefully short-mediumterm) this happens all the time in the stock market. How are you so sure you were not going to be repaid had the loan gone through? Do you think there will be a exit scam? Is he fudging with the numbers on site or effecting rolls? Is he able to secure site funds? From what I have seen lately is Dean working on site day in and day out trying to get this going in the right direction again, hopefully he has a fire under his ass and can try and make good on those failed promises.

Waste of my time replying to you when you don't even read what I write but I will do it anyway.
1# Dean is sleeping
2# The only form I talk to him is on site, and we have no private message feature currently and your always sending screenshots of conversations on site so yet again another lie and false claim by you again, and yet you claim I'm the one attacking you......
#3 I did mention the speculation Rhavar had of being dupped but it is clearly speculation and we will never know, but I assume you will still speak of it like it's factual.
- He made no mention of whether 500 BTC, 2250 ETH & 425 LTC are in the bankroll or not
Response: How am I suppose to know, just like how would you know? I said site gave freeroll and overlay in tournaments for months and sportsbook was getting crushed by proffesional gamblers maybe this is where those funds went but like I said how the hell am I suppose to know. But your making claims like you know for a fact where they went when you have no clue just like I do, but I will just say I don't know, you don't choose to speculate where they went you just act as if you know it's a fact.

- He made no mention of the 20 BTC +EV that winners not paid in the 2018 Christmas Wager
reponse: We gone over this over and over but the answer you get is never good enough. The prizepool was filled with cheaters, people who won and cashed out freerolled the site and people who lost, were refunded what they lost, Dean only lost in this situation and players did not lose out, and go figure people cheated when they saw a opportunity to win some +ev money ( as a poker professional for over a decade i know first hand that people will cheat in tournaments when they see overlay with multiple entries this is not uncommon at all)

- He made no mention of the BKB tokens from the 100 million that were supposed to provide for new games and a new website but did neither
Response: I don't know anything about this, but the site did have roullette at one time and I believe it is coming back very soon and more to follow

You can put me back on ignore but your not doing yourself any favors by doing so. Please remove my bad trust rating we both know you giving it to me is completely unjust.