Quote from: Lolcust on September 04, 2011, 07:15:43 PM

Painpal and similar entities not so much "protect" against fraud as shift the damage to almost exclusively the established merchants (since scammers run for cash out pretty fast, they hardly care that much, it's basically them vs. time after you send them a Paypal transfer, and with proper skills and prep, they easily outrun an average person's ability to realize the fact of fraud and file complaints), which strikes me as somewhat perverse (though I could definitely see how some people might find that setup comforting)

As for due diligence, well, we have #bitcoin-police @ freenode. Do check those guys out ( Google bitcoin police IRC if you don't know what the love Freenode is)

Bitcoin shifts damage exclusively to the consumer. I have no economics background, but aren't there more consumers then merchants? Aren't merchants themselves consumers? PayPal is not a perfect system. Bitcoin does not offer improvements to the consumer- just to the seller.

Quote from: cancis on September 04, 2011, 10:24:33 PM

Quote from: lazycodre on September 04, 2011, 07:24:43 PM

you can use it to become a pioneering entrepreneur I guess

if you even have to ask that question youre probably just a consumer that will eventually be forced to use bitcoins by companies like the ones you mentioned.

I would say that's a bit of hyperbole, but I get your point. I think a better way to put it is:

Yes, Bitcoin at it's current level of adoption is more of a hassle than a benefit for the completely average person who doesn't do any sort of transaction other than paying bills, buying groceries and gas, buying some stuff off Amazon every once in a while, etc. However, these are also certainly not the "shot callers" of the world, and definitely have a miniscule influence in adoption of new currencies. They go wherever the market pushes them.

I have a problem with this logic. Yes, large companies have influence over the market. However, most of these companies are successful because they understand their markets. Paypal is a big deal because paypal courts those looking for buyer-security. Why would a big company adopt Bitcoin? A company the size of amazon experiences minor fraud, but If they wanted to see the benefit of switching to Bitcoin, they would have to turn around and sell their customers on the idea of Bitcoin. They would have to push people to Bitcoin rather than paypal. And the concern I would see for them is the association. The first time a customer is scammed, their thought would be 'I never had this problem with paypal. Why did tell me this is better?' And negative press spreads so much faster then positive.

From an outside perspective, I think it's a huge mistake for you to tell me that you don't want my business. I wouldn't bring a huge amount of money into the market, sure. but what about anyone else who is looking for the pros and cons of Bitcoins to the consumer and find this thread? I'm giving you a chance to make Bitcoin appealing to more people, and so far the most attractive thing I've heard is using it as a Western Union alternate.