Quote from: BobK71 on April 23, 2019, 07:46:31 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 19, 2019, 07:00:41 PM

Quote from: BobK71 on January 18, 2018, 02:55:14 PM

At the center of his conclusion that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies have no real value proposition is that the top Western currencies have no store-of-value problem. True, the US is not Zimbabwe, or Venezuela, but is a bright person like himself not aware that a dollar or pound is worth a small fraction of itself decades to a century ago?

Is it possible to stop people from telling half truths all the time?

Everyone is quick to say that the dollar depreciated like 99% during the last 100 years but why are they so forgetful to add that it is not just the dollar that lost value but also salaries and wages that rose proportionately, while the real purchasing power of people today is incomparable to what it had been 100 years ago?

The nominal value of the dollar (and how much it can buy) is irrelevant since it doesn't mean anything on its own without considering how much people can buy with their income. You can add a couple of zeros or subtract as many but as long as incomes change proportionately, it is completely inconsequential

It really is this simple: put a $100 bill on the table, and leave it for 100 years. How much purchasing power is left? And compare that to gold or Bitcoin. This is the store of value of a money, period

You won't live for 100 years, end of story. Well, in fact you may, but then in the end of this timeframe, the purchasing power of the 100 dollar bill will be your least concern as I come to think. And technically, you would be proved wrong if you were to actually put that bill on the table 100 years ago as it would acquire quite a lot of numismatic value by now, so in the end, your purchasing power would have actually increased multifold (provided you would still care, of course)

And it is not given that Bitcoin will still be around in just 10 years from now on

Quote from: BobK71 on April 23, 2019, 07:46:31 PM

Now if you want to argue the average person doesn't get hurt by this inflation, that's a completely different issue. First of all, you shouldn't store your savings in dollar cash. (Sure, your current income will keep going up, but what about the income of the past that you sweated equally for and saved away?)

Fiat money is not a long-term store of value. If it were, it would not be good as a currency. In this manner, your whole point becomes kinda truism (read, you should spend it, not save)

Quote from: BobK71 on April 23, 2019, 07:46:31 PM

If you want to argue that you can get better returns by investing in stocks, bonds and bank deposits... Fine, but, again, we're talking about the store of value of money, not stock in a company, and I don't think you want to get into how savers are forced by this money system to take risks and help prop up the system (which is where this discussion would lead to.)

Technically, you are talking about the store of value of fiat money. This is a subtle distinction (as not all monies are born equal), but once made, there is not much left for debate (see above)

Quote from: BobK71 on April 23, 2019, 07:46:31 PM

You want to argue this entire system of money is beneficial? What you can point to is that material wealth has increased greatly overall. What I can point to is that this turbo-charging of growth is artificial, ie not driven by market forces but by central planning at the core monetary and financial levels of the system, by pumping money and debt into the system during the boom phase of the cycle

Money, and fiat money in particular, is a tool and how it is used and to what end depends on who is using it and what their goals are. In other words, don't shoot the messenger

Quote from: BobK71 on April 23, 2019, 07:46:31 PM

The fruits of this unnatural growth is time poverty leading to all kinds of unhappiness, addiction and mental illness. And this is among the lucky. The unluckiest of the world get their family members and homes blown up by bombs because the system incentivizes the elites of the dominant imperial countries to use wars and 'regime change' to force other countries to support the system, directly or indirectly

Well, you can't actually expect people to be any different. As they say, charity begins at home (just in case, Bitcoin is no exception to this rule of thumb)