Quote from: Yakamoto on April 25, 2019, 09:26:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 25, 2019, 04:27:29 PM

Quote from: BobK71 on April 25, 2019, 03:15:34 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 23, 2019, 09:19:11 PM

Quote from: BobK71 on April 23, 2019, 07:46:31 PM

The fruits of this unnatural growth is time poverty leading to all kinds of unhappiness, addiction and mental illness. And this is among the lucky. The unluckiest of the world get their family members and homes blown up by bombs because the system incentivizes the elites of the dominant imperial countries to use wars and 'regime change' to force other countries to support the system, directly or indirectly

Well, you can't actually expect people to be any different. As they say, charity begins at home (just in case, Bitcoin is no exception to this rule of thumb)

True, the only way for real change to happen is that we realize 'you can't expect people to be any different,' and take the power of money away from the elites. (What role Bitcoin plays in this is actually not very important.)

That's likely the only point that I agree with

However, that is not my point at all. If we take the power of (creating) money away from the elites, we should offer something else instead, right? And that's the crux of the matter (and point of discord). While credit money (I'm specifically using this term to avoid using fiat as in your eyes it is synonymous with centralization) is made bad by the powers that be ("the elites") by debasing it via excessive money printing (like QE's), Bitcoin is simply not suitable for the purpose credit money plays in the economy. I mean money as a currency, not as a store of value

What would you even be able to give bankers back in exchange for "reclaiming" the monetary supply? Controlling the money of a nation is one of the primary means of controlling the entirety of the nation, and it might as well be the biggest and most-entrenched out of the other methods. There's nothing that can be offered in exchange aside from what would amount to literally giving them the country and then some

Well, the world had been running on the gold standard for many millenia (this is not to say that we should get back to it), so we can't in fact promise the bankers too much (let alone give them back the whole world). Especially when we are going to strip them off of their money printing monopoly (or rather arbitrariness of it)

Quote from: Yakamoto on April 25, 2019, 09:26:00 PM

Bitcoin is a great store of wealth and an excellent means of taking your money out of the economy as a whole, which in and of itself can be very important, but you're right when you say that Bitcoin can't fulfill the same purposes fiat does. You just have to find a way to play the game without relying on fiat and "beat the system", I guess

Actually I don't disagree with this view

But when when you start (or stop) to think of it, you inevitably catch yourself thinking about some form of centralization. For example, we want a cryptocurrency that would change the supply of coins which would make the economy function without a lot of friction under the current conditions, and then you somehow come to think about a sort of Gosplan (the agency responsible for central economic planning under the Soviets)