Quote from: TheHas on April 26, 2019, 02:00:16 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 26, 2019, 12:25:33 PM

Healthcare is a commodity, not a right, and it is simple to prove. You have a right to travel, you have a right to defend yourself, you have a right to free speech. You do not have a right to the time and resources of others. In order to make healthcare a right you literally have to take time and resources from others by force, ie you take rights from some to give rights to others. The US healthcare system is broken, but if you can afford it you can get some of the best healthcare in the world right away, not 6 months after you get a referral which you waited another 6 months to get.

Even IF you wanted to take the argument of right vs 'commodity', it is still irrelevant to judging how broken the US health system is and its expenditure. You don't need to make a philosophical or political argument to show it.

As an example, if you look here you'll see that the US Government spends the same as most other countries on health (public funding through taxes), but your private expenses (that is, your out-of-pocket costs when you see the doctor) are TRIPLE that of comparable countries.

So the taxes spent by US Government on health are the same as other countries, but you're still charged triple in private expenses. It's pathetic. In reality, even the whole 'oh I don't want to pay more taxes for healthcare' argument doesn't fly. Other countries pay pretty much the same in taxes for health purposes but don't get slugged with excessive private fees.

But reforms still don't happen as the US hyper capitalist mentality apparently even extends to people dying in hospital. I mean, really?

On top that, people jump to assumptions that it can be explained away by a philosophical argument of 'socialist healthcare' (its not socialist, but I'll put that to the side) not being right for the US. And that the US is making a choice of paying less tax = higher private costs vs paying more tax = less private costs. Well, clearly not actually - the amount of US tax revenue going to healthcare is the same as other OECD countries not less - the US health funding model just lets doctors, specialists, hospitals and big pharma get a nice pay day literally at your expense.

I don't need to make a philosophical argument to show it, I need to make it to point out these knee jerk reactions will not only make the problem worse, they will cause SO many more issues people have no concept of. People like to run around saying things like "healthcare is a right", and it simply can not be, because in order for some one to have that right you have to help yourself to the rights of others, be it time or resources. That is not how rights work.

IMO we need to strangle the insurance industry for starters, they along with the litigious nature of this nations laws are the primary culprits. These systems were abused until systems of protectionism were created, then those protective systems themselves became the systematic abuse. You will often find doctors who run a cash only practice will charge considerably less because of the removal of all of these compliance and documentation issues for example. Doctors spend more time doing paperwork than anything else, and that is retarded. Giving the government more power is not a solution because it is what got us here today.