Quote from: CoinCube on April 30, 2019, 01:15:40 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on April 30, 2019, 11:20:43 AM

In your world, free will might be an illusion based on your grandiose God Delusion (GGD).

In the real world, unknowns remain unknowns until they become knowns. And there is no such thing as God entity 'painting his work of art'.

There is no free will, things are either determined by the physical laws (neurons firing in your brain) or non-deterministic randomness outside of our control. Both cases push the concept of free will into notbatman's la-la-land.

We disagree so strongly on every single issue because of of your delusion. Lets call it your grandiose nihilistic delusion (GND).

In your world life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value, morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are arbitrarily contrived. Human or even the entire human species is essentially insignificant, without purpose and of no importance in the totality of existence.

http://www.arasite.org/WL3/nietnihil.html#_ftn1

Quote from: Dr. W Large

It is the continued destruction of all meaning and signification. It is the belief that nothing really matters any more, because nothing really has any meaning. We have no system of beliefs or values which could orientate us. The old systems of belief, like religion and morality, still exist, but at best we only follow them half-heartedly, and at worst, think that they have no meaning whatsoever. They exist only the edges of our lives and consciousnesses. But it isnt just the world that doesnt have any meaning anymore. We ourselves dont have any meaning to ourselves. Why should we choice one course of action over the other? What does it really matter anymore, since no-ones individual life really has any significance in the grand scheme of things...

Nothing is worth much anymore, everything comes down to the same thing, everything is equalized. Everything is the same and equivalent: the true and the false, the good and the bad. Everything is outdated, used up, old dilapidated, dying: an undefined agony of meaning, an unending twilight: not a definite annihilation of significations, but their indefinite collapse.

By rejecting intrinsic value as you do, your are not abandoning the quest for value but certifying the absence of value. What is the antithesis of nihilism? It is faith.

Faith holds that life has inherent meaning. It proclaims that there is an objective status for ethical ideals grounded in the very bedrock of creation. It teaches that man is created "in the image of God," and therefore has inherent dignity and immense value. It offers mankind a purpose in this universe.

Faith demands we not accept the world as it is. Faith provides an ideal and asks us for ethical perfection. It is a goal we fall far short of a world to strive for. Your nihilism provides none of these things for at its heart it is a philosophy of emptiness.

Free will may be an illusion so might time and indeed the entire universe as we perceive it. These possibilities, however, are irrelevant. We have the freedom to express who and what we are by living life. Who and what we are is ultimately determined by what we choose to be. Maybe there is some higher order perspective that is capable of knowing the entire structure of our neuronal wiring or is not limited by time as we are and capable of knowing with certainty what our future choices will be. Even in that scenario we are still free in the sense that we shout out to the universe what we fundamentally are via our lived lives.

In your world the murderer had no choice on his actions he was compelled to kill by his neuronal wiring the killer is a victim compelled by cause and effect. In my world the murderer made a conscious choice to commit a horrific evil and informed us of who and what he is.

We will not agree because our world views are fundamentally incompatible. We will have to leave it to the readers to choose which of our two world views they believe true.

In your example, the murderer does not live in a vacuum. His thoughts (neurons firing in his brain) are the result of what has happened in his life and/or around him at the moment he is making his decision. The 'choices' that his mind produces are the result of causality that preceded his thoughts. The conscience itself is an effect, not the cause.

As for your babbling about nihilism, well, you just proved my point. You are a God-obsessed, delusional individual who thinks that every materialist is a nihilist.