Quote from: CoinCube on May 02, 2019, 12:22:36 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on May 01, 2019, 04:14:12 PM

Quote from: CoinCube on May 01, 2019, 01:21:59 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on December 10, 2018, 09:40:29 PM

You are a good person if you follow the moral code that your society accepts.

Here is a thought experiment for you af_newbie. Say the Nazi's had won WWII and gone on to kill anyone who disagreed with their ideology.
Standing triumphant over the hundreds of million dead with the whole world in submission how would you judge the Nazi executioners who led the innocent to their doom in the name of racial superiority and suppression of dissent. Would they suddenly become good men according to you? After all they are only following the code that society now accepts. Those who opposed them no longer live. Or would they be evil men who triumphed and in process dragged the world into darkness and evil.

The answer to the question matters a great deal. I judge them evil men despite their victory and despite the fact that they follow the new "moral code" of society would you?

As for the hypothetical situation about the Nazis, I am afraid I would not be able to experience this as I would be killed opposing their supremacist ideology....

How many Germans died opposing Hitler? So stop fabricating this notion that all Germans supported Nazism. I would probably end up like August Landmesser:
...
If you had to put a label on me, call me a materialist humanist, moral relativist but nihilist?

Fuck, I value life (including human) more than you ever will, you deluded, sadistic prick. I know we have ONE, fucking life to live, so it is more precious to me than you. To you, this life means shit, as you look forward to 'unite' with your imaginary friend after you die and decompose.

It is to your credit that you would stand up in opposition to evil in that scenario af_newbie. That fact that enough people did is why that particular evil failed.

However, you dodged the question. I did not ask you what you would do or if you would be among the living I asked you if following victory the Nazi's would suddenly become good men. If evil becomes good by popular consensus simply by killing the opposition.

The problem with your moral standard is the answer is yes they would be good men. In your own words "You are a good person if you follow the moral code that your society accepts." That is moral relativism in a nutshell.

August Landmesser was certainly an exceptional German he was exceptional because he did not follow the moral code his society accepted. He opposed Nazism and paid dearly for it. He was forced to fight in a penal battalion and was killed. His wife was killed. His children were placed in orphanages and fortunately survived. Hitler was elected into office via a democratic vote. He was given emergency dictatorial powers by a democratic vote in the legislature. Opposition existed but was not widespread there was no civil war in Germany or anything like it. His rise to power was legal.

You disagree with the term nihilism I will stop using it to describe you. It was not meant as a pejorative. You value life and that is good. It means you have kept at least a part of yourself free of relativism. There is no scientific reason to value life. There are billions of other humans very similar to you and probably many other planets with other life out there somewhere. Valuing life is probably necessary to reproduce and propagate but there is no scientific reason to do that either. The real reason to value life is not because it is rare or common or practical. The reason to value life is that each individual is an end in and of themselves.

You can certainly build a coherent worldview on moral relativism. It turns into a philosophy of power and the necessity to seek power over yourself and others at all costs. The following theoretical discussion between Kant and Nietzsche is a little deep but it highlights this last point.

Kant and Nietzsche talk it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHJFWJgXuXg

Quote from: af_newbie on May 01, 2019, 04:14:12 PM

you deluded, sadistic prick.

I understand deluded but sadistic?

I take no pleasure in inflicting suffering, humiliation, or pain on others. If I have done any of those things to you in the course of our discussion I apologize for it was unintentional.

You have no empathy for gays and transgender people. You think they are mentally ill. If you had your way, you would remove them from society and lock them up in mental institutions and subject them to psychiatric treatments. Electric shocks from the 1950s come to mind.

You support discrimination. Discrimination causes harm. Do you enjoy inflicting harm?

BTW, the Nazi party supported racial laws, the German society at large did not. Hitler instituted dictatorship in Germany. Learn history before you speak on the subject. Even in the 1933 elections, Hitler only got the support of 43.9% of eligible voters, and that is after a good decade of political intimidation and violent suppression of any opposition. Majority of Germans did not support Hitler. In the 1920s, his support was in the low teens.

You say that I would have to grab pussies by a truckload because Trump does it. 50% Americans support Trump, it does not mean that if you live in the US, your moral code is the same as Trump's moral code.