Quote from: CoinCube on May 04, 2019, 12:46:43 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on May 03, 2019, 11:51:50 AM

Quote from: CoinCube on May 03, 2019, 03:50:57 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on May 02, 2019, 04:44:53 PM

Just stop this 'free will' nonsense...

Our world can be deterministic or non-deterministic. There is no other choice.
...

Actually there is a third option. The universe including all time and space could be an imagined deterministic creation in which the creations are imagined to be free.
...
The Izbicer Rebbe and Freewill
http://www.theapj.com/the-izbicer-rebbe-and-freewill-2/

You just babble without thinking, or you are unable to think. Which one is it?

Your 'third' option is the "first" option. Even if we live in the deterministic simulation.

Fuck, you are a walking, talking proof that religions cause permanent brain damage.

I am sorry af_newbie but if you want to understand this topic you are going to have to put in a little more effort.

However emotional satisfying you find it calling people sadistic and brain damaged it just makes you look silly. You are simply not understanding what in my opinion is the most elegant of the solutions to the free will problem.

Izbicer demonstrates is that it is possible for agents to be free, relative to the fiction that they live in, whilst wholly determined from a Gods eye view. If you want to really understand how this works you will have to do some reading and approach the topic with an open mind.

The Izbicer Rebbe and Freewill
http://www.theapj.com/the-izbicer-rebbe-and-freewill-2/

Quote from: af_newbie on May 02, 2019, 04:44:53 PM

Did you just conceit that the moral code is relative to the culture that adopts it?
...
Moral code evolves as our cultures evolve.
...
You just validated two things: that the morals are relative to the culture they were developed in, and that God did not write the ...moral code,... If it was the creator of space and time, he would have given transcendent, objective (to any culture) moral code.

No I said that the proper instantiation of the objective moral code can vary across changing circumstances.

The command love your neighbor as yourself for example can cause you to act in one way in a particular scenario and in an entirely different way in another time and situation. The truth is fixed its implementation infinity variable.

Societies adherence to objective morality is always flawed. The closeness of the approximation varies hopefully with gradual improvement over time.

As BadDecker mentioned human nature does not change much over time on a fundamental level. This is true and its the reason why the 10 commandments are as relevant today as there were centuries ago.

Society, however, is vastly more complex and powerful then it was 4,000 years ago. Some things that were important in times past are not as relevant or practical in our modern world (animal offerings are an example). When those situations arise one can understand the message of the Bible by attempting to understand why the rule was ideal and necessary 4,000 years ago. Deriving that truth if we can sometimes allows us to extrapolate how that principle would map to the modern world. Its not an easy process which is perhaps why we have been granted a role model to follow. The ideal if you will.

Quote from: af_newbie on May 02, 2019, 11:42:19 AM

Ask yourself: 'What would Jesus character do?"

"the proper instantiation" is subjective, not objective.

I do not understand people like you and BADecker, I cannot believe that you, living in a modern, Western country, can think that people 4000 years ago knew more about the human condition than contemporary scientists and philosophers. You do realize that these people were ignorant, did not know what planet they were on, what Sun was and why they have evolved from other life forms. Their community leaders wrote the Bible to manage growing cities and communities, provide some legal and moral guidance. That is it.

I just don't get it. Are you that stupid? Unbelievable!!!