Quote from: CoinCube on May 19, 2019, 05:58:35 PM

Quote from: Astargath on May 19, 2019, 09:52:16 AM

Do we know anything or are we just supposed to trust the book?

Empiric knowledge can take us pretty far.

We can use such knowledge to strip away and examine the various layers of our beliefs like so many layers of an onion. Eventually, however, we reach a point were that type of reduction can go no further.

At that point we transition into a different and more fundamental frame of reference. This area has many names. It has been called metaphysics, a priori, faith, religion. The name is not particularly important. The consequences of the decisions made at this fundamental level, however, are profound for they ultimately define who and what we are.

Materialism is one such choice. It is a common metaphysical trap of our era and difficult to escape once embraced.

The "evidence" trap: Why so many modern people are 'stuck' in materialism
https://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-evidence-trap-why-so-many-modern.html?m=1

The Book is a blueprint. The choice we make as individuals is like visualizing a completed structure from a set of plans and then deciding if that is what we are going to be a part of. Its a decision made ultimately with the heart too not just the intellect. Most important choices are.

The process can be difficult due to our limited perspectives and the signal loss that occurs due to the vast distance between us and the societies of the ancient past. Humanity is a terrible medium to transmit information through.

When deciding whether or not to trust it helps to focus first on the areas least susceptible to signal loss. The parables are nearly timeless and the closest part of the Bible to the source of Christianity. There are not very many of them and I recommend anyone seriously considering the topic to examine them all both with their heart and their reason.

The Parables
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/parables-of-jesus/

It has been a pleasure discussing these topics with you all. I have greatly enjoyed the back and forth. I am now called elsewhere and will disengage. I am starting a new business that will monopolize my time so this will be my last post for a while on Bitcoin Talk. I wish you all well on your individual journeys.

Goodluck and Godspeed.

I read your article. Basically, it says, if science would detect anything spiritual, it would still be considered material, so you would never 'leave' the materialism based worldview.

So what?

I think the definition of materialism does not really describe our current scientific discoveries. What we consider material, is really mostly empty space, with some probabilistic energy/wave distributions that follow certain physical laws. Electrons do not really exist as we were thought in school.

We really need a new term to describe people who do not believe in magic, spirits, ghosts, Gods or other supernatural forces or entities.

Maybe we need to call it Energism or Wavism or simply call it SWV (Scientific World View).

I think science outpaced our linguistic development.

Now, as to your point of how to 'get out of materialism prison', well, I am not sure what you are suggesting would work on any 'materialistic' scientist. The reason is that the supernatural is not a testable proposition. So it will not be even considered.

If you want to change the mind of a 'materialist', you need to speak his/her language. You cannot talk about scriptures or some emotional subjective experiences. Instead, you have to talk about things that can be independently tested and validated.

What you cannot do is jump to conclusions or give answers to unknowns based on no evidence. These will be dismissed outright.

The funny thing is that most religious people think that quoting the Bible/Quran/Talmud will help them with their case, nothing can be further from the truth. It is like talking to the Westboro Baptist and quoting the Quran.

If you want to get the attention of a 'materialist', don't use scripture, use any non-religious evidence for your claims.