Quote from: franky1 on June 11, 2019, 10:33:04 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on June 11, 2019, 05:02:03 AM

Quote from: franky1 on June 10, 2019, 10:47:45 AM

scaling a network by deburdening the network of utility (facepalm)

utility isn't declining. the network is drastically expanding. bitcoin is becoming exponentially more useful all the time. the on-chain micropayment niche might be dead, but why do think that is the only metric? maybe we need to find a better solution for micropayments than to alter bitcoin's economic design just for the sake of them?

you seem to be coming from the perspective that we can wait decades to raise fees. next year, the coinbase reward drops to 12.5% of the original reward. but you seem to think users should continue to pay nothing, doing nothing to replace the falling mining revenues, in order to bootstrap the network.

you really think that's a sustainable approach---to let users pay nothing for decades and then lower block sizes to jack up the fees when hash rate starts plummeting in response to no block rewards? i don't think users will have much interest in that. it's a tough pill to swallow but it'll be a hell of a lot easier to do it now with a fee market (especially since it requires no consensus change) than later.

gotta love your tone "plummeting" you sound like over decades things are ok then sudden cliff edge... maybe worth you checking out some sustainable approaches/scenarios yourself that dont come from the echo chamber of certain devs that are paid by VC's that need LN to make ROI

More social drama from franky1. Stop, you always include your replies with FUD that has nothing to do with the debate.

Quote from: Khaos77 on June 12, 2019, 04:33:03 AM

Quote from: Yudhisthir on June 11, 2019, 11:47:44 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 10, 2019, 09:01:31 AM

Quote from: user512 on May 30, 2019, 07:19:24 PM

I think that LN does not really solve the scalability problem at all.

It will scale the Bitcoin Network, but I believe no one knows by how much. 100x? 1000x? Or maybe less? Because of that unknown, then we simply cannot predict how much it will impact the volume of Bitcoin's usage.

Lightning network ofcourse solves the scalability problem. We can create a dozen of lightning networks if we need it. It's similar to something coinbase has been using within its platform. They were criticised at first for their model but now the whole bitcoin community is embracing the lightning network.

You are confusing scaling with offloading.

Offloading:
Bitcoin Blocks can hold a Maximum of ~1.7MB [~7200 transactions] so ~12 transactions per second
LN Network [Thousands of IOUs per second] only limited by hardware & bandwidth of the hubs

Now let's say LN is only processing 50 million IOUs,

What?? Confusing "scaling with offloading"?? Hahaha.

Plus what a disingenuous way to slip in that IOUs in Lightning are a fact. Roll Eyes