Quote from: jl777 on February 17, 2014, 03:16:46 AM

Quote from: Voluntold on February 17, 2014, 02:54:44 AM

Quote from: jl777 on February 17, 2014, 02:13:21 AM

Quote from: Voluntold on February 17, 2014, 02:06:09 AM

Quote from: jl777 on February 17, 2014, 01:48:23 AM

Quote from: allwelder on February 17, 2014, 12:33:15 AM

Quote from: CIYAM Open on February 16, 2014, 05:11:36 PM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 16, 2014, 05:07:11 PM

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 16, 2014, 05:07:11 PM

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?

weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I ~~want~~ demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.

Actually, I have to disagree. I started mining to get a better understanding of this "miner's mentality". It is actually not that easy.There are a zillion coins that having invested thousands of dollars into GPU's or actually paying for VPS time to mine a coin means they are businessmen. Invest, work, generate revenue. That is not something for nothing at all. That is getting the most revenue from my investment.

In fact, it is EXACTLY the type of person we want to be building the products and services on top of NXT.

We need to stop this us vs them rhetoric. Just imagine if miners could make more money mining NXTcoins built on top of NXT. What would the implications of that be?

James

I didn't mean that all miners want something for nothing. But from my understading, a lot of these miners have ALREADY invested a lot of money into GPU's and such from previous mining operations like litecoin or whatevercoin, and are then just trying to switch from coin to coin once the difficulty of a certain coin gets too high to be lucrative anymore without buying more and more hardware. I just feel like a lot of them believe the point of crytocurrencies is just to be able to get rich off of running computer hardware and consuming electricity.

Nobody is making free money from mining anymore.Maybe you get lucky and get a windfall now and again, but anything that pays out really well one day is breakeven very soon.

We need to think in terms of there being this vast number of computations and the people that are managing it to maximize revenues from that asset. Wouldnt you do the same if you had the mining rigs?

Understand the other guy and what is important to him. Then maybe there is a way of finding common ground, like give the miners exactly what they want, just make it so they mine on top of NXT.

James

I wouldn't have the rigs in the first place because I saw the obvious advantages to PoS from day 1.

But no, I totally agree with you about making a 'coin' for them to mine on top of NXT. I think it's a great idea.