Quote from: CoinCube on July 23, 2019, 11:04:46 PM

Quote from: Astargath on July 23, 2019, 07:47:23 PM

I'm not assuming anything, you are. Your arguments show humans cannot determine whether something is true or not. It's also really easy to prove that using the scientific method works far better than simply using your reasoning and logic. For example:

Let's say you don't know much about anything. An apple falls on your head, you start to think about it, why does that happen? Will you ever be able to determine it's gravity only using your logic without performing any experiment or gathering evidence? Of course not. In fact logically, the earth could simply be accelerating upwards, that would make sense logically and would explain the apple falling.

You are correct that my arguments do highlight the difficulty humans indeed any consciousness must face when determining whether something is true. Indeed there are only two possibilities. You can become a epistemological nihilist and decide you can never know anything at all ever or you can assume some basic foundation to ground yourself upon and build your knowledge upon it.

Once you really understand this you understand that faith is unavoidable. Ultimately we choose to have a faith in our core beliefs and build everything we are upon that faith. Even the nihilist have faith in their nihilism they certainly cannot prove nihilism is true. Most people don't understand their own assumptions. They adopt a whole host of them but don't actually ever analyze them to any degree or even know what they are.

The scientific method is an extremely useful tool for answering questions but it is just a tool. It is an error to elevate that tool to a stature that it does not warrant and pretend it will answer questions it never can. One of the assumptions you must make if you believe scientific facts exist is that the universe is rational (results from today will predict reality tomorrow) and that knowledge exists. Science ultimately is just disciplined observation, testing, and recording of results very useful but limited in what it can answer.

What I have endeavored to show in this thread is that faith in God is superior then faith in alternatives like nihilism and definitely superior to lying to oneself and pretend denying you have faith. To some degree I have succeeded and to some degree I have failed. That depends on the reader.

Faith is not a reliable method to discover the truth. The scientific method is.

The only thing you showed is how faith indoctrination can lead to delusions.