Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 22, 2019, 08:34:24 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 22, 2019, 07:24:36 AM

First, to begin with, you don't pay a few cents for a transaction unless you are willing to wait a couple days till your transaction finally gets confirmed (I've done that and it doesn't work good).

That's just not true. I frequently pay transaction fees of a couple of cents and get confirmed within the hour or even quicker. And as I said before, an unconfirmed bitcoin transaction is still harder to reverse than an unconfirmed credit card transaction

You had it coming

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 22, 2019, 08:34:24 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 22, 2019, 07:24:36 AM

Further, most everyday expenses are below 100 dollars per purchase even in the US (it is easy to figure out why), so even a few extra cents for a cup of tea may look or feel not as appealing as paying nothing above the price tag

Well, for transactions like buying a cup of coffee you can use Lightning Network. Pretty much instant and feeless, but still with all the extra benefits bitcoin brings over fiat

Here we go again

Last time I checked 1ml.com (truth be told, I just looked into it), it didn't show any improvement at all in Lightning Network adoption. Actually, the network capacity went significantly down over the last few months. I remember its peak at over 1k bitcoins (still a minuscule amount itself), and now it's at 837 BTC. That gives us a strong push toward the conclusion that Lightning Network is as good as dead so far

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 22, 2019, 08:34:24 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 22, 2019, 07:24:36 AM

Apart from that, those who send 1M dollars don't particularly care about transaction costs, while even with wire transfers there is an upper limit on fees, which rarely exceeds a few (dozen) dollars (pretty much like your few cents per Bitcoin transaction).

There are far more fees to consider than just the transfer fee. If you want to move a million dollars internationally, then you are looking at bank fees, lawyer fees, transfer fees, exchange fees, commission fees, and so forth. These can easily add up to several thousands dollars lost. Bitcoin has none of these

As long as you don't leave the crypto domain, Bitcoin is an excellent device to move around piles of wealth in a smooth and efficient manner. You can't argue with that (neither can I). But things change dramatically when you decide on cashing out, and then your expenses may skyrocket and easily add up to thousands of dollars spent on conversion and withdrawal fees. So it is a moot point given that you can't do without fiat in today's world. But if you try, the premiums you will have to pay will be extreme

And that is an underestimation