Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 24, 2019, 05:18:10 PM

Quote from: deisik on August 24, 2019, 11:23:43 AM

People want adoption, I mean real adoption, but they don't want to do anything to that effect themselves, i.e. to actually promote such adoption. If things were different, we would have already been there by now. But since we are not, that instantly sends us back to square one (read, no adoption of crypto as a full-fledged and self-sufficient means of payment)

Not having a complete bitcoin ecosystem for everyone in the country from salary through to buying groceries is not the same as being back at square one and having no adoption. Adoption is gradual and takes time. I've gone from never spending bitcoin to spending it at 1, and then 2, and then 3, and then more merchants. I can earn bitcoin without touching fiat, pay in bitcoin without touching fiat, and I know at least 2 of the merchants I use pay some of their staff (at least partly) in bitcoin. That seems pretty self-sufficient to me, and certainly isn't "square one" in terms of adoption

Okay, let's call it square two

Yeah, I know it is still better than none (or just one), but we still have 62 more to pass. The point is, one swallow doesn't make a summer (two swallows don't make it either, just in case). It is mass adoption that counts (the grand scheme of things, in your terms), and I don't see us moving in that direction, slowly or otherwise. Personally, I can go as far as to say that Bitcoin has failed as a means of payment, even though it doesn't mean that it failed in general as you can't seriously consider something worth 10k per unit a failure. In essence, that means Bitcoin is not to be spent, it is to be hoarded or used as a hedge (dealer's choice). This is the direction we are moving in

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 24, 2019, 05:18:10 PM

Unfortunately I agree that the majority of people don't actually want to put in any effort. I've lost count of the number of times on this forum people have asked "where can I spend bitcoin", but have never actually approached a single merchant or vendor and asked to pay them in bitcoin. Create a demand for it, and merchants will start accepting it!

See? I can definitely feel your pain

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 24, 2019, 05:18:10 PM

Quote from: deisik on August 24, 2019, 11:23:43 AM

If I didn't have a fiat option, I would be forced to spend coins, of course (as I sometimes still do in the way described above), but other than that, it is the last thing that I would willingly do.

I love spending bitcoin. I love knowing that there isn't some faceless bank tracking everything I buy, and using it to build a profile of me (and probably handing that information over to the government). I love knowing that I'm never going to have a payment declined because my bank don't like what I'm buying, or have for some reason decided I'm not allowed to spend my own money how I want. I'll spend bitcoin wherever possible

I'm totally cool with that but for most of us it is just a welcome bonus of sorts. In other words, it is not something extremely important that our entire life depends on or turns around. Being able to cash out is, though