Quote from: Spendulus on November 09, 2019, 10:42:26 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on November 09, 2019, 03:49:28 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 09, 2019, 02:00:26 AM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on November 09, 2019, 01:04:03 AM

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The question isn't whether or not they have enough evidence, it's whether or not the thing they are accusing him of doing is worthy of removing a sitting president.

Back in the real world, a certain group of people decided Trump needed to be impeached the first day he was in office. And everyone knew it, because these people were pretty open about it.

They didn't care what the charges were, and they don't care today.

The evil that Trump did and was that they want to impeach him for is being Trump.

You're probably not wrong, although I'm not sure anyone was actually open about it. The general message was 'lets give him a chance' .

Regardless, the "democrats wanted to impeach him on day one!" is just a lame talking point that has nothing to do with the facts of the current impeachment proceedings. It's just one of those things they keep saying over and over and over till eventually people start to think it's relevant.

Every president has members of congress trying to impeach them for whatever they can come up with. The majority of Republicans wanted to impeach Obama at one point. Being investigated and criticized is part of being the leader of a democracy.

Again, back in the real world, if we see signs and agitprop from the first day on impeaching Trump, and then facts come out about secret conspiracies to impeach Trump, including RussiaGate, and that fails and then they try again with TitforTat, ... I have to revise your statement...

FROM:

It's just one of those things they keep saying over and over and over till eventually people start to think it's relevant.

TO:

It's just one of those things they try over and over until people get really sick of them and kick them out.

The existence of a secret conspiracy to impeach a president should not make the president immune to impeachment.

And the Russia investigation was not a secret conspiracy. There is proof Russia interfered with our election. There is proof that Trump encouraged and welcomed Russias help in getting him elected. As a result of the investigation, there is now proof that his his campaign chairman, deputy chairman and personal lawyer all committed felonies in an effort to cover up various interactions and a Business deal with Russia. The investigation also uncovered exactly how the Russians influenced the election, the Russian individuals responsible, the servers and vpns they used, the fake identities they used, the email addresses they used, the bitcoin transactions that were made to pay for the servers and VPNs, how they got those bitcoins, the google searches the hackers made, the twitter accounts they used, and more. This information will help with protecting our election process from foreign governments in the future.

All of these things happened in the real world and have nothing to do with whether or not the president leveraged the power of his office to try and get Ukraine to help him gain an advantage in the 2020 election.