Quote from: BADecker on November 11, 2019, 03:52:11 PM

Quote from: styca on November 11, 2019, 06:39:46 AM

Quote from: BADecker on November 11, 2019, 12:58:08 AM

you think that the complex machines of nature that are far more complex than the ones intelligent mankind makes, are made by "blind unthinking evolution."

Yes. Evolution. The thing that often throws people is the timescale involved. The evidence is that life on Earth started at least 3.7 billion years ago. And it has been subject to natural selection (plus countless random, mostly negative but occasionally positive) mutations since then. It's not as if, as someone stated on one of these threads 'man came out of a monkey's ass'.

The problem with your kind of thinking about the age of the earth and universe is, there is all kinds of evidence that the universe is much shorter. Some of the evidence points at 10,000 years. Since you can do Internet searches that show this, and since you can get deeper by studying the young-earth evidence with those who explain it, believing in a old-universe view is a choice... not reality of an old-universe.

In other words, whatever looks good, and however you want to apply the evidence, is like making a choice to believe whatever you want.

The only way to know how old the universe is, is to believe the witnesses who were there, and recorded their witnessing.

The first two chapters of the Bible were witness records copied by Moses from text in Egyptian libraries about 3,500 years ago. These texts probably have crumbled away with age long ago. But they might still be hidden in some lost Egytian library somewhere... hidden under the desert sands of Egypt.

You can't apply today's evidence without knowing the past parameters that the evidence needs to be applied by. Maybe they are applying the evidence in a wrong way. We won't know until we have witnesses or a time viewer/machine.

Cool

You have such a machine, its called a telescope. Yes, indeed, whatever you see in the sky is already very. very old, much older than 10 thousand years. And the more you "zoom" in, the farther in the past you pry (not just further away).

Time and Space is relative. You think you could make things simple for you to understand it, but the universe does not care, it simply is.

Humans have this bad habit of destroying written history, from the old Chinese emperors, and the typical invasion armies, they can't simply stand seeing thousand years old stuff. Even modern Americans destroyed humanity's oldest writings when they ransacked and destroyed Baghdad's library "for lulz" (and some profit), just like the medievals, and the barbarians, or the romans of the past. It is a miracle "something" remains, as distorted as it may be, from impulsive selection, and several mistranslations (and even oral tradition).

What little remains is because it got buried before conflagration, such as Pompei, which unfortunately was uncovered and is quickly disappearing.

10 thousand years is nonsense. The Earth alone may be 20 million years old, of course most of its history it has been a barren lifeless planet incapable of sustaining life. Formation of this "Solar" system is estimated to be 4.5 billion years old, and where and when was this system formed?

Humanity existence is but a glimpse in the history of "this" universe. We could again ask the question of, where and when this universe got formed... And it doesn't matter what you believe in, those things won't be changing, at least not "here" on this "Universe".

Besides watching, there is also a proven method of time travel, you can travel to the future, but there is no returning. Simply travel to speeds close to the speed of light. Its already known and documented, Einstein's theory worked, as alien as it sounded.

Do you think reality starts with humans and ends with humans? Yours maybe (in your lifetime for that matter), but not the Universe's.

We know Earth is going to be destroyed about 2 billion years from now. I doubt there will be any "humans" left to witness it, either we would have evolved or most likely gone extinct. Dinosaurs lived on this planet, probably much longer than humans ever will. They lived around 200 MILLION years, where puny "humans" have barely been existing for 200 THOUSAND years at most, but you say its just 10, so i guess the other 190 thousand years they were too busy throwing sticks and stones at each other and living in caves etc. The nearest predecessor to humans took a couple of MILLION years to evolve into "human".

We don't know why things work the way they do in this plane existence, but they do.

10 thousand years of recorded history, but only because the Jews were more zealous to keep their oral tradition going, AND escaped being wiped by others. A sect from them ended funding Christianity, which in turn compiled (the parts they liked) into that book already coming from oral tradition from different languages than the ones used by whoever wrote them, and then again translated, and translated, and translated... and re-translated...

Did you ever stopped to ask what language that Moses actually spoke? If you want to get a bit closer, get to the source, the jews, don't be dismayed by the contradictions you may uncover. Remember this, the bible is not the source, its the copy, a really, really bad copy. Its valuable, but to a limited extent. Even the jew scripture is already altered, by their oral tradition since the times of Moses to the times of "Jesus", AND language changes (or do you think thousands of years would preserve the language intact?). And what language you think the contemporaries of Jesus were speaking? and their followers? Which was the official language (roman empire, remember?) Greek? Latin? Aremaic? a mixture? What about Hebrew?

Read this:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

The name Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, a transliteration of the Greek Ἰησoῦς (Iesous). The Greek form is a rendering of the Hebrew ישוע‎ (Yeshua), a variant of the earlier name יהושע‎ (Yehoshua), or in English, "Joshua", meaning "Yah saves". This was also the name of Moses' successor and of a Jewish high priest in the Old Testament.

If they made this giant mess with just THE name (everyone calling him Jesus is misnaming him) imagine what they did with the rest...

Have you ever tried reading the other books that were taken out from the bible, written by the same authors? Have you ever read Jesus "Lord's prayer" translated from Aramaic? You are in for a shock, given that Christianity is supposed to be based on it... But what's written (current) bibles, is VERY distorted. Jesus gave good teachings, and once you read a more faithful translation, you can understand how Christianity came to be. But the Christians that came after, well, history repeats.., just a century or two later whey were feuding over their founder coming in the flesh or in the spirit. That pissed the roman emperor, the "trinity" was born and that schism was solved...