Quote from: BADecker on November 14, 2019, 11:13:51 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 14, 2019, 09:37:53 PM

Quote from: BADecker on November 14, 2019, 09:02:24 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on November 14, 2019, 08:03:30 PM

Quote from: BADecker on November 14, 2019, 07:21:15 PM

You simply don't understand that your free will actions are dictated by the present bio-chemical situation of your synapses. And the present bio-chemical situation of your synapses is dictated by the food you ate, the water you drank, the radiant energy hitting your body, and all kinds of other firing synapses that might not have anything to do with your free will activity in question. So, it isn't really free will, since all these other activities are directing how it works.

What this all means is that your free will is situated somewhere else.

Cool

So you are a Christian heretic by denying that humans have free will.

Now we are getting warmer. There is no free will as defined by religious myths. That was my fucking point from the beginning. I was trying to explain the Christian dogma to you because you do not understand what it says and what it means.

Now, that you understand that there is no free will we can both agree that God is responsible (cause) for all the evil in this world. Again. I am just stating what your religious dogma says. I do not believe in evil or God. Just bad/good shit happens to good/bad people.

As for randomness, it is observable, read the PDF I posted, it seems like it is an emergent property of the underlying system. Check the causal fermion system theory.

BTW, I do not believe in ANY details from any religious myths. Free will, demons, angels, sin, God, hell or heaven. It is all made up shit to scare people and give the religious conmen 10% of their income. Gypsies lifting curses, card readers, fortune tellers, religious preachers are all the same, conmen.

As usual you missed something. This time it is the fact that I said we have free will.

The fact that you don't believe what God says, shows that you believe in the myth that God doesn't exist. Rather religious of you.

Cool

I did not miss it. You say a lot of nonsense, to reply to all of it just takes too much of my time.

Your statement is even more irrational than your religious myth.

The free will that we supposedly possess is not in this world, but somehow we can still use it to affect our deterministic world in non-deterministic (free will) fashion. Do you hear yourself?

You just shift things around to cling to your mythology. "God is outside of the known universe, space-time that is why we cannot detect him, yet he controls everything in this universe; now, the free will is somewhere else outside of our deterministic world, etc."

As science discovers more and more and invalidates every single detail in the Bible, you have to move the goalposts, change the meaning of words, reinterpret the verses, and redefine what and where God and free will are.

You are making shit up as you go.

You have no logical arguments, other than entropy increases, therefore we had low entropy when the universe started, therefore God started the universe. Yet, when scientists make similar extrapolation about the space-time and conclude that the universe started with a BB, you object.

When I showed you that you cannot have free will in the deterministic universe, you claim that the free will exist but it is not in this universe.

You make no sense. When I say A is dependent on B, you say A is not dependent on B because B is not B.

That is the crux of all of your arguments.

Notice that you won't even accept soul and spirit, and that is where the actual free will of people exists. The brain is subject to deterministic activity. So, free will doesn't exist there.

Since you won't accept soul and spirit, they certainly don't exist in this world. At least not according to you.

Since the machine nature of the universe exists all around us, especially in determinism, God exists. Machines have makers.

So, why do you continue to remain in the attitude that God doesn't exist? Further, it's not a surprise that you think that I make stuff up about free will. You don't even recognize the free will that you have, the free will that God exercises for you because you are too weak to use it yourself, and are too weak to even recognize that it exists. Or do you agree free will exists, and yet not agree that the brain acts by determinism? If that is the way you think, then where is your free will?

Cool

Spirit, soul - now you are talking nonsense again. There are no spirits or souls of any kind, anywhere!!! Grow up.

If free will exists in your soul, does your soul exist in our deterministic world? Yes or no, please.

If yes, it is not free will because it must obey the deterministic laws of our deterministic universe.
If not, it cannot be the cause of anything in our deterministic universe.

BTW, the same goes for your God object/concept, if it exists outside of our deterministic universe, it cannot be a cause of anything in this universe. If that is true, then there is no difference between your God object and any other object that does not exist. Lack of evidence supports that notion.

For the record, I am not convinced that our universe is deterministic. If you look at the quantum effects, it becomes abundantly clear that it is not. But please do not claim that God/souls/angels are the cause of non-deterministic quantum effects, because that would be another Christian heresy.

BTW, the C&E regression can run ad infinitum. I see no logical argument that it cannot. Actually, it would be illogical to assume that it (God) started without a cause. However, the way our universe actually started, it is actually nonsensical to talk about a cause or effect in the absence of space-time. You need time to determine what is the cause and what is the effect.

As for our brain, it is an automaton; it responds to the environment, our actions are predicated on all the prior stimuli our brain received.
There is no independent free will, IMHO. There is an illusion of free will, but our actions, our thoughts are driven by what we have experienced in the past. Even when you make that final, split-second decision, it is made because of some last cause and the 100B neural network that processed that cause.

PS. To answer your question. I do not believe in God because I have read all three Abrahamic holy books. It is clear that they were written by people to control other people. Writers projected their own personalities to the God they have created. It is fiction, a scientific nonsense. Moral rules listed in them are abhorrent. God is a psychologically comforting concept, but it has nothing to do with reality.