Quote from: dzimbeck on November 19, 2019, 12:01:02 PM

Cryptohunter, yes the amount of garbage on CMC that is still getting volume is a daily reminder of how we live in some Orwellian/Idiocracy nightmare. To be honest, it's left me somewhat bitter over the past couple years and thinking about how I should have played my hand instead. If I knew consumers were this crazy, I would have been more realistic. On one hand, I want to be a source of positivity for the community and on the other hand I want to be pragmatic.

So with that said, what was accomplished was nothing short of miraculous. The peg running on dynamicpeg.com perfectly tracking whatever price the community sets in a decentralized way. Just like we said it would. And then Bittrex stabs us in the back. Heck, I even got kicked off their slack. Haha. Then again I expected to get kicked off because I called them out for delisting multiple countries that are or have been at war with US military and told them they were a bunch of cowards and traitors to the decentralized movement. And that they turn their backs on the devs that have enriched them and the cutting edge tech that makes their exchange possible in the first place. Haha they were even such cowards they didn't even bother to respond. I still believe the military has a secret hand in many of the exchanges. It's possible our peg is feared among the big players because they know what it can do.

The death of the altcoin industry hurts Bitcoin more than anyone can imagine. The sign of a healthy market is one where anyone can trade and lot's of enthusiasm and cash flow are in the market. It doesn't necessarily mean that "stupid money is healthy" it means that a booming economy will have investors who search opportunity. Once they tighten up on altcoins they do the same thing on BTC. So BTC purists take note!! To go short on altcoins is the same as saying "sell all your stocks and buy Coca Cola stock because it's the only real stock". It's stupid. Altcoins should replace the stock market!! Also ETH tokens are too easy to issue which paved the way for scams. Even though I said this would happen on these forums in 2017 (the vaporware will cause the bubble), for some reason I didn't really set much cash aside. Cassandras complex. I was too focused on the peg and personal issues. Days turned into months and months into years. I knew it would be bad and even told my friend I would rather pay taxes on 15% to 20% than to lose more than 50% on volatility. Then for whatever stupid reason, I didn't really cash so much of my alts or major holdings. I expected 10x decreases and thought I would have been safe at those levels(BAY was not included in my calculation). So why didn't I act on foreknowledge to better my own life and have more power to put into my businesses?!? However, seeing so many coins that were decent down 100x or more is definitely a paradigm that wasn't expected considering BTC holds at 8k with a 65% + market share. BTC has a very unhealthy share of the market. Even though from a branding perspective this is makes sense in a way, from an adoption and volume and growth perspective it's not good.

Maybe we can change things. If only the world would notice.

Hi David,

Yes certainly I can understand your position on this and for sure you have provide above and beyond what could be expected by a single developer by a long way. I mean as you say it is quite mind blowing really and I can not even start to understand how disappointed and upset you must be at this point, not even considering the start of the entire project. I mean psychologically you must be incredibly robust.

Like yourself I think many core believers in bitbay did not make the most of the bull run. However, I don't think we should be disheartened. For sure we have continuously been at the receiving end of 3rd party fuck ups and bias decisions.

This though can be viewed as a good thing. It has revealed that we must be 100% in control of every aspect of the end to end decentralized and trustless arena that we are trying to create here. It is better to acknowledge this before any kind of semi mainstream adoption since the rug being pulled from under us at a later stage could be far worse.

We must not get disheartened, many have been with bitbay from the start. The issue we have is that although many members want bitbay to succeed there is yet nothing they can really do alone to push for it to succeed.

We need to get some cohesion between real bitbay enthusiasts to reach some level of critical mass that can make some difference and be of real use pushing bitbay forward.

I would certainly agree external investment would be way better and a far greater driving force short term. However I actually believe if we are super smart with our community funded dev pot that long term it is actually even more beneficial is some ways. Also volume/liquidity as you say is critical and fundamental to our moving forward. However we are locked right now into a downward spiral that self perpetuates. The price decreases, the interest decreases, the volume decreases, down down down ( although right now we can not go lower really).

It becomes a very tough task to reverse this spiral when you are at the bottom. You can no longer increase interest (as most projects do) via price and being in a high position on CMC. It is like the investards only use one metric to judge potential success and that is current price direction.

Failing attracting huge external investment ( they would want a huge stake of bay anyway), donations are never going to happen in ANY project that I have ever been part of. Only doge have I ever seen such a thing and that was donations in doge from super whales. BTC is a different ball game so comparisons are not really applicable.

There is still something we have that NO other project outside of the top 50 really has and that is an inventive, 90% completed, function and highly useful tool that has limitless usecases. SO where other projects can not move from the bottom of a downward spiral (partly caused by continual poor treatment by 3rd parties or poor luck beyond our control). We can certainly still build Interest and indeed a desire to have stake in this project we above all projects out there ONLY need to get people using bitbay and educating people to see just how much you get with bitbay for such a tiny tiny starting investment, and failing that just their time and effort.

1. We can put a vote for the Community funding pot.
2. It will not increase bitbays inflation.
3. Every single person out there will have a fair chance to earn some bitbay and a fair rate for their effort.
4. Even those appraising peoples work/effort and allocating their pay will be paid to do so. We will build a self perpetuating group of fairly rewarded individuals.
5. I mean look at the micro jobs and advertising that people are prepared to do for airdrops of total piece of crap projects with no product and just the mere hope of something coming of the project in the end. This is giving people a chance to fairly earn a stake in one of the most useful and complete projects out there period.
6. Since we have the ability to send locked coin rewards we can even control the spending time, we can give packets of coins that are time locked for a future time period .
7. Apart from setting up the initial 5 coin community funding up then I think all the other hassle of dealing with the challenges, jobs, or even payment for larger projects should be managed by the foundation who themselves are paid to manage it all from the community fund. Since I don't see that you David should be spending time on anything that non skilled devs can easily take care of.
8. If we ensure any and all paid work is actually adding value via education, adoption/increasing awareness, advertising or even large projects bring real value to bitbay then since we are not even going to be increasing inflation then over time the volume/demand will rise.
9. With a good management team in the foundation to ensure people are doing valuable and worthwhile work for bitbay there can only be advantage to this.
10.I think future development by you david should also be rewarded from the development pot the same as other people and when you need chunks of bitbay to fund or pay specialists that you deem needed then you can take the bitbay required or if they really insist on bitcoin can take it from the community pot not from your own pocket all of the time.

We need first to look through our community, take the strongest and most adamant bitbay hardcore supporters and form a foundation that works cohesively.

We don't want to much red tape over every single aspect. I think just a public ledger that shows the community pot and details how every coin is spend and on what exactly. Community coins can be released to the foundation and chunks and replenished as they demonstrate via the ledger how they were spent and on what exactly.

Even coming up with great ideas of useful contests, challenges, or even larger projects can be rewarded.

I think it will help in building a far larger community that interested and feel they can actually contribute and increase their stake fairly on how much effort they contribute.

I think we just need to get bitbay web market polished up so people can quickly get logged on get their products on there and get an address.

This entire workload should not be for the developer. We need a foundation of members that are bitbay hardcore supporters that can take care of the entire thing. Whilst a solution to our exchanges ( I really just seem them as on ramps off ramps really anyway so we can get a CMC top 50 minimum for the free advertising and recognition) not too bothered about exchanging bitbay to other crap coins.

It is quite simple. There is no project out there that comes close to offering what bitbay does at this level.

It is sad to see David even getting a bit demoralized at this point. This is completely understandable at this point after breaking his back and getting no recognition or appreciation or even real adoption due to being held back by 3rd parties, whilst total shit projects take all the limelight and get all the help and hype.
Even the community does very little to help or push things forward, we all sit there (including me) just waiting for one person to practically make it all happen in all areas.

Let's build a community, educate them so they are not in it for 5 seconds and see the true value of such a project, make sure we have a community that is actually worth having that contributes and is assisting making their own stakes here even more valuable for themselves. The social aspect bitbay can be just as important as the tech aspect for the success of bitbay and is a lot easier to encourage and develop for many normal (non super tech skilled) members.

Let's get a nice pot of bitbay together and help people understand the real value of that pot not just allow them to see the current pathetic representation of that bitbay and get them to start earning a real stake in their own future.

Let's work on both fronts, build the interest adoption and demand and usefulness of bitbay whilst we work on making bitbay alone self sufficient and free from future fuckups of 3rd parties.

I am quite excited about seeing what we can do here with just a handful of driving foundation members. Of course more can and must join the foundation over time anyway as that scales up.

What have we got to lose at this stage. I am hoping we can also give David the feeling he as a lot of support behind him rather perhaps feeling like a one man show.

Imagine him having to build all this out on his own and then having to pay with his OWN btc for all things like listings (who rip him off like some have) of course he is going to get a bit down hearted about it.

The simple fact is though if you want people all helping and pushing this forward they need some skin in the game. With this they will help and push first then they will be guaranteed skin in the game. No point us hoarding it all for ourselves. However like with every community donation never ever work, people say why should I donate if others with perhaps even lots more coins are not donating? a FAIR community contribution made by all is the only way forward psychologically.

I actually do not think many people will object if their 5 coins per pos block are used to build the value of their remaining 15 coins per block, it makes perfect sense. Those that can not be educated to see the real and future potential of bitbay are not willing to defer their gratification need not work or contribute to the tasks or competitions or advertising or larger projects. We only want people in the community that want and are willing to contribute to the success of bitbay anyway.

Who is still on the bitbay team and is still active now?

Donations have never worked on any project that I have been with ever, even the hugest whales never donate. If we ever want or must have bitcoin/fiat for things we really need for bitbay the only real chance is to allow purchase in bulk from the community coins of bitbay at the market rate. This could be voted on since we have the voting mechanism.

I would love to build a huge and productive community behind bitbay since it could be so interesting with the market place etc. There are so many cool things we could do to to build interest/adoption/volume and educate at the same time.