Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 19, 2019, 10:36:45 PM

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 19, 2019, 05:06:04 PM

Quote from: hd49728 on November 19, 2019, 12:52:29 PM

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 16, 2019, 07:23:03 PM

Bitcoin velocity also connected to BTC fees, so if we can improve there and make fees lower, velocity would be higher.
I would like to see charts of Bitcoin Velocity compared to recent failed currencies in Latin America and Venezuela for example.
We have to take in consideration that Bitcoin is used there, and lot of that is not even registered, as some consider it illegal.

What you say was right back in 2017 or early of 2018, but now I think it is not right. Fees of Bitcoin transactions has become very cheap and does not an issue when people want to use Bitcoin as means to transfer their funds.

The barrier that hinders Bitcoin from massive acceptance is its too long block time (10 minutes). It means people have to wait at least 10 minutes to see their transactions get first confirmations. If in the future, developers can reduce block time to help Bitcoin users having confirmations faster, I think the really big explosion of Bitcoin will occur. Lightning network has not yet shown its good effects as we expected.

I doubt that transaction times of 10 minutes for 1 confirmation is holding BTC back. Sure, at some point bitcoin is going to become better for smaller transactions and for quick payments, etc etc... but rome was not built in a day, and of course, lightning network is attempting to make bitcoin better in the small/quick transactions arena.

In accordance with Gresham's law, there is going to be reluctance to spend the best money, and bitcoin is the best money, but of course, if other monies are removed from the system because they die away or maybe there might be places where people do not have any other options, then in those circumstances they can spend their precious bitcoins.... otherwise, currently, there are fewer incentives to spend bitcoins when there remains so much upward price potential and there are likely other options that are available to people. Of course, I would rather spend credit card, cash or some other means if it is going to allow me fewer transactions and I am also concerned that BTC prices might be going up before I am able to replace the BTC that I had spent in such hypothetical transaction(s).

Humbly I have to disagree here entirely. When you're buying something in person, 99% of the time someone needs that payment instantly. Not in 10mn.

Great. Don't use bitcoin then, if it going to be a potential issue.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

People don't have time to wait around for that, on both sides. Fast and easy is what it's all about. That's why apple pay, tap cards, etc are so popular.

Are you saying anything different from me? You think that bitcoin's primary use case is to compete with those payment mechanisms? Do you think that bitcoin serving as a payment mechanism adds much value to why people actually currently want bitcoin?

Get real. Sounds like you are brainwashed by some shitcoin ideas about what actually brings value to bitcoin and what bitcoins actual innovation was.. 11 years ago and still building.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

I love Bitcoin, but to say it's the "best" money, I can't agree with you there.

Bitcoin is the most sound money ever. What do you mean by "best"? Do you even understand gresham's law?

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

No currency of any kind is more coveted than the US dollar.

How well do you believe that the USD is going to hold its value against bitcoin in the coming years?

How well has the USD held its value against bitcoin in the past 11 years?

Of course, the USD has a lot of liquidity, and there are some ways that USD is better than bitcoin, but in terms of holding its value, good luck if you are going to invest in the USD and not invest in bitcoin in the coming years. You might be correct, but I think that the odds are against you, in terms of concluding which one is going to have more value in the coming years. Of course, investing in bitcoin does not need to be an all or nothing proposition, and if you already are used to having dollars, you might want to consider how much to hedge in bitcoin.. Don't overdo it, either way. Good luck, sounds like you are going to need it if you are getting distracted into love of the dollar in comparison to bitcoin.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

It's backed by the strongest nation in the world, accepted by many worldwide (the US dollar is the only dollar you can take to other countries where there is a chance they will still accept it).

Do I have any problems with the dollar? How about you try transporting $1million worth of value over the border and compare doing that with bitcoin or the dollar? Sure it is a hypothetical, but there are use cases for bitcoin, too, and maybe you need to consider that before getting all high and mighty about whatever seemingly lame dollar loving points that you seem to be attempting to make.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

Now is bitcoin the "best" money by concept?

When it comes to sound money, we are going to see how this plays out in the coming years. I can see that you are trying to narrow in on some nonsense points which don't really tell us much about what is the value of bitcoin as compared to the dollar and how individuals might chose to allocate their holdings depending on their own situations, including their cash flows, other investments (or options), risk tolerance, timeline, skills and research abilities etc.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

I could absolutely argue that point.

You could argue, but why should you?

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

Until transactions are LN fast, and volatility slows down greatly...it's likely to simply remain the "bullion of currency". A safe haven.

Anything wrong with that? Bitcoin might not be the same for everyone in terms of their various use cases and the extent to which they might want to hold some of it for the present or for the future.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

I've transacted using LN before and it's fantastic and I've got great hope for it's future use...but the fact that it makes transaction anonymous (or mostly so) is scary to me.

Yes. Lightning network is one option within bitcoin that is still being developed, as you seem to know, but you want to get scared about some nonsense point. You can use lightning or not. It is your choice, so no need to get scared, especially if you chose not to use it.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

See Monero country bans for example.

Who gives any shits about Monero? Does that somehow relate to bitcoin?

Yeah, if Monero has some features that bitcoin wants to incorporate, then maybe that could be relevant to bitcoin, and those features might be absorbed into bitcoin, and on the other hand, if Monero provides some utility that you value, then you could do that, too, if you want. Otherwise, who cares about Monero?

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

I hope btc transactions remain multi layered.

Seems to me that there are going to continue to be various onchain developments as well as second layer and even third (or more) layer developments in bitcoin. Rome was not built in a day, and bitcoin seems to have a lot of options and a lot of development, so we seem to be in quite early stages, so your wish about multi-layered seems likely to remain a reality in bitcoin and likely even to get quite expanded in the years to come, from my largely non-technical understanding what seems to be bitcoin's ongoing development direction.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

This still has so many question marks however.

Of course, bitcoin is like a plane that is continuing to be built while it is flying, including some disconnection between various player that are building it along the way.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

I do have faith as the older generations die off, that society as a whole will accept digital anonymous transactions much more so. The old farts are the ones really fighting it. why?...

I doubt that there is any kind of generational complication here, beyond normal changes that happen in society with passing down traditions or creating new traditions and practices. Of course, with anything new, it takes a while for society to adapt to it and for use cases to evolve and for problems to be identified, to the extent that they exist, but there are social interactions too about what is going to be acceptable and accepted and what is not, so there are different concepts of "acceptable" in different parts of the world.

Quote from: ChiBitCTy on November 19, 2019, 07:41:00 PM

"There are critics who criticize this technology primarily based on their world view. It is politically inconsistent with their world view. Its not that they do not like the technology its that they do not like the implications of this technology and the primary criticism you get then is this should not be to which all I can answer is ..and yet it is. but we mustnt and yet we did, but you shouldnt.. but yet we did"- Andreas Antonopoulos.

Hard to disagree with Andreas on many things, and so in some sense, he seems to be saying that bitcoin does not give any shits because things just happen and things just change with the passage of time.

Lol holy shit man, I'm not sure I've ever seen someone take something out of context as much as you just did here. First off, I was trying to have a legit convo, not trash talk what you said but to provide my opposing viewpoint (and educated opinion). I'm an investment advisor by trade, so I'm pretty familiar with how money works and what's realistic and what's not..at this present moment.

I am almost completely a btc maximalist ( I do like Monero quite a bit ). I also don't view btc as much of an investment (since it inherently is not just as satoshi made clear) as I do a currency that is decentralized, permission-less, fungible etc that can change the world. The power it gives back to the people to no longer be fucked over by big banks which are evil to their core is something I've dreamed of since I found out about it.

I just wanted to quickly point out a few things. I would enjoy an open discussion that doesn't include throwing jabs and trying to belittle someones viewpoints (whether they were perceived correctly or not)..but that doesn't seem like it's your type of thing.