Quote from: CoinCube on December 05, 2019, 03:48:51 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on December 05, 2019, 03:35:08 PM

I thought we were talking about human beings?

Human beings are not magically made at conception/fertilization.

It is a long process to get from a fertilized egg to a human being.

A fertilized egg is not a human being. It can become one, but it is not at conception/fertilization.

Again you attempt to create an arbitrary disctinction without foundation.
Even your language is misleading. A egg after union of ovum and sperm is no longer an egg at all. It is inappropriate to call it one. The new life is a single celled embryo or if you want to be extremely technical a zygote.

We are talking about human beings. Early undeveloped human beings but human nevertheless. Humans go through many changes over the course of our lives. The embryo is different than the infant, the child, the adult, and the elderly and infirm. All stages are different but all are human and deserving of human rights and dignity.

Quote from: af_newbie on December 05, 2019, 03:35:08 PM

.

As for fetuses being somehow independent human life, well, they are part of a woman, so technically it is a woman life we are talking about.

At some point, the viability stage, you have to separate the two and say you have two human beings.

But at fertilization, on a petri dish? You are just irrational.

A fetus is certainly not independent it is a life that needs its mother for a time to survive a need that extends long after birth.

That is the primary reason why sexual activity outside of marriage is ethically problematic. It often brings new human life into the world. New human life that emerges into an environment that often does not welcome or support its existence. It is immoral to engage in activities that lead to such an outcome.

Listen, you really have to think about what life is. A fertilized egg on a petri dish is not human life unless we somehow find a way to artificially sustain it until it becomes a viable human being on its own.

The same fertilized egg implanted into a woman's uterus lives as part of the mother and eventually develops to be a human being.

When CNS and internal organs completely form you have a human being, IMHO.

As for abortion, well, it all depends on when you think you have another human being growing inside the mother, and how you weigh in the mother's rights.

On what grounds do you think an embryo or a fetus has the right to violate a woman's body? If the mother does not want to have her body violated, does the growing embryo have any right to violate her without her consent? Because you say so?

You can argue about the time limits of when the abortions should be allowed in the pregnancy, is it 2, 4, 8, 10+ weeks, etc. But dismissing women's rights and banning it altogether is just plain evil, IMHO. So is killing a viable baby, btw.

Banning stem cell research is just plain crazy. There should be no discussion on this. There is not much to discuss.

Your stance on stem cell research is dogmatic, illogical and irrational.