Quote from: gildarts456 on January 01, 2020, 08:31:24 PM

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Proof of Work aka Proof of Waste has always been a doomed project.
...
Proof of Stake aka Proof of Sustainability has always been the solution.

Proof of Stake is not trust minimized by design and isn't any different from any permissioned database where someone has to let you in and decide how much control you get.
You literally cannot enter into proof of stake as an independent without someone choosing to permit you access by choosing to give up some coins to give you or sell you.

Without permissionless entry you cannot guarantee a single trusted party or a trusted party of insiders at that point can't prevent anyone independent who disagrees with them from entering which renders it permanently centralized in control to internal party (from time it starts)

Proof of Work is the only known solution for this at this point as it's based on unfakeable metrics outside of the network that not only lets anyone enter but forces costs on them so they give up coins to even more people. Proof of Stake is entirely internal and thus not safe.

Additionally, on top of being permissioned by design, staking reward is literally incentivised centralization of control. You can grow % you control by staking by taking advantage of the fact that anyone not staking loses control.

Additionally, Proof of Work difficulty adjustments on average guarantee miner costs are approximately equal to their reward, it incentivizes the sale of coins to cover those costs which leads to improved distribution of control and miners reliance on the markets made of users to buy those coins from them at high value. Misbehavior by miners on any chain or fork would be met with decline in dollar value of rewards they depend on and thus cost them ability to cover their sunk costs. Proof of stake has no mechanism to incentivize stake owners would want to sell any coins.

Additionally, Proof of Work equipment ages out and causes massive costs of equipment to be continuously paid by miners, not just electricity. This allows replacement of miners who were unable to cover their costs over time and most attacks are expensive can be waited out. Proof of Stake holders can hold on forever.

So let's summarize:

Proof of stake allows permanent control with no incentive to give it up, the payouts actually reward growth of centralized control, entire system is always permissioned, and thus cannot be trust minimized or decentralized.

Proof of Work costs energy and yet is the best and only solution for Bitcoin we know of that has none of the above mistakes.

Here is where you are wrong.

You claim bitcoin is permission less,
No one here can mine a bitcoin without permission to buy an ASIC or buy a bitcoin.
Even ASICs odds of mining a bitcoin require permission from a mining pool to earn any in a decent time.

Now it takes Thousands of US Dollars to even buy a decent ASIC.

As far as Proof of Stake, you can tell you don't use it,
by design a Proof of Stake holder can not keep constant control of the chain that is a flaw in PoW design not in PoS.
In PoS, once a coin amount stakes it goes dormant for a coded period of time,
this mean no PoS users can continually control a chain.
If you need a PoW comparison, it would be like your ASICS mined a bitcoin and then you manually turned it off for 24 hours ,
this means for the next 24 hours you have no control over the chain.

As far as Centralization goes, there are a mere 4 mining pool operators that control over 51% of bitcoin mining for years.
Plus when your BTC miners sell their PoW coin , they give up no control of the network , they keep being the Master and you their Slave.

In PoS, the Stakers have to sell some of their coins, or receive no fiat profit,
With every coin , they sell their % of the network drops.

Now their are badly design coins in PoW & PoS as far as their inflation settings,
Setting a PoS coin to high inflation rate, does not mean that people keep buying the coins at stupidity high prices,
what happens the price per coin collapses, as an product that overproduces more supply than public demand.
The Law of Supply & Demand Economics won't be defied, because you are confused on how they work.

Coins with a growing utility and a stable supply growth that never exceeds demand, will stay stable or rise.

Bitcoin problem: PoW is a failed design of Winner Take All.
And only the Rich Elite can afford to play, so explain that to the poor guy that you tell it is permission-less, that can never afford to mine a single bitcoin.

While most people can afford Proof of Stake coins, and stake their own coins.
Proof of Stake is a cooperative design requiring multiple users to maintain/secure it's network.

PoW is a dead end, and bitcoin will evolve or die.
Just as all Slavery Systems fail in time, the miners being the masters and the bitcoin users being the slaves won't last.

Proof of Stake is Superior for the following reasons.
Energy Efficient
Can not be located due to excessive energy waste
Can't be banned for using so much power there is not enough left for other people normal daily usage
Can survive low prices without causing the stakers to declare bankruptcy
Stakers may stake at random times, they don't have to run 24x7 like PoW miners
Does not have to lose the Utility of making Micro Payments.
Easily affordable access due to low cost entry verses only the rich can afford to mine bitcoin.
All Proof of Stake Coin Holders can stake , All Nodes with coins can Earn!