Quote from: dayfall on September 21, 2011, 03:41:47 PM

Quote from: Rassah on September 21, 2011, 06:32:05 AM

No, I'm simply asking why were you raped if you pray and believe in god?

The better question would have been why were you raped if you God is good (and exists)? The only thing the believer is at fault of is having faith. (Shame. Shame!) The only answer I have heard from believers is that these bad things are in fact good for us. Somehow. Hence, I don't have much sympathy for theists because, as they claim, God has it all under control. For the rest of us, this might be as good as it gets. All, we have are friends and family.

Rule #1 of salesmanship: Only ask questions, and have the buyer come up with the answers. If you give them the answers, they'll be skeptical. If they come up with the answers on their own, they'll believe them.

The trick is to know what questions to ask.

One of my gifts is being able to "read between the lines," and I don't expect Pinkie to come up with all the right answers right away. She is incredibly bright (in both meanings of the word), surprisingly tough, willing to fight for herself, and willing to get angry when appropriate (all somewhat rare and very respectable qualities). A lesser person would have resorted to personal name calling, or ran away angry and crying by now. She has stuck to it despite the very difficult topics, and I am fully aware of the difficulty of type of things I am bringing up and asking of her (yes, I'm claiming that what I have been saying in this entire discussion is, mostly, not accidental blunders, and are words I fully meant to say). I do actually recognize her skills at subtly sidestepping points she may not have answers for, or is uncomfortable confronting, (as opposed to just being dumb and avoiding questions like trolls often do) and instead constantly refocusing the discussion to the points she believes are important. Switching this topic to a discussion about rape was somewhat unintentionally brilliant of her, and has given me an extremely difficult and dangerous challenge, for which I am actually very thankful to her, since it's rare for me to get challenged on such a level that I am forced to think hard and chose my words extremely carefully. Kudos for making me stumble and go into an overly defensive position, as well. The personal assumptions she makes about me I simply chuck to her youth and inexperience, and her statement of "I'm just a 17 year old girl! How dare you!" actually made me laugh at how disingenuous it seemed, since she has been an extremely strong and high level opponent through all this in spite of her age. No, I don't expect to change her mind (although it's inevitable her views on homosexuality and god will evolve over time, at her own pace), but I am enjoying asking such difficult and rarely discussed questions, having her fairly skillfully navigate them, and give me her opinions on them. Mostly I am enjoying learning so much about her, since I am actually starting to admire her somewhat. She so reminds me of the kids I mentioned I used to talk to so many years ago. And, from what I have seen of her so far, even if I think she may be a bit misguided, and do feel sorry for, and very angry at, what her parents did to her regarding that camp situation, I'm fairly sure she'll be ok, since whether she holds on to her faith, or whether it fades a bit over time, she'll definitely be a force to be reckoned with. Just don't tell her I said so ; )