Quote from: Spendulus on February 02, 2020, 02:42:47 AM

Quote from: dupeddonk on February 02, 2020, 12:09:00 AM

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try to look at it from both sides. it seems like you can only say bad things about the party you oppose and its usually more insulting there intelligence than anything substance.

I lived in Schiffs district for 5 years voted against him both times i could, had a Rogan sign on my garage the last year that district was red. hes done some messed up things like voted for iraq, dragged his feet on benghazi. but his court room game is on point. he proved his case very well, i really don't think there is a single senator that doubts trump did exactly what hes been accused of....

What is quite interesting here is that you(and Viper and Twitch) are obviously sincere about your assessment of Schiff, as am I.

And I'm not just repeating talking points, no need for that. I can evaluate his performance as a practicing lawyer and orator just fine.

Such dissonant points of view must be explainable based on cognitive dissonance and preconditioning. However, as for "who is right" I'll certainly place my bets on those people who simply said that the whole thing was a sham and 2/3 wasn't going to come.

But if you think as you think about Schiff and his powerful oratory and keen acumen, then yes those with similar preconditioning and similar cognitive dissonance if wavering could be positively moved into the True Believer category. Translated to the alternative party viewpoint, fewer losses in mainstream Dem voting group than otherwise.

I feel that's incomplete and imperfect, so consider it only a first crude cut at trying to reconcile this matter.

"Such dissonant points of view must be explainable based on cognitive dissonance and preconditioning."

i dont know if you mean looking at a situation from both sides, or being a conservative thats disgusted with the president, his supporters, and the republican party in general.

ill assume you mean being a conservative disgusted with the state of things right now since its something ive been thinking a lot about lately anyway and looking at things from both sides is just a good thing to do in life.

respectfully, there is no dissonance when it comes to my point of view. i think the federal government should have less power not more, decreasing our deficit is more important than hitting all time highs in the stock market, strong immigration policy and compassion for those less fortunate, and our leader should have integrity be transparent and be pragmatic.

democrats historically have been far weaker on all of these things so my affiliation has been an easy decision.

but trump isnt just weaker, hes the opposite on many of them.

i watched his defense team argue this week that as long as a president believes hes doing what is right for the country it cant be worthy of impeachment. this includes if hes doing something to win an election. thats how dictators remain in power.
trump is adding to our deficit like crazy and manipulating the fed into cutting interest rates. i believe hes doing this because a healthy stock market will make him more likely to be re elected not because its whats best for the country.
his stance and policies on immigration i agree with, but the chants and rhetoric are disrespectful to millions of people. we are better than that.
and as far as integrity, this is the part that does make me a bit emotional, but just look at the way he treated on john mccain. it started during the campaign but it got so much worse even after he died.
if god appeared before trump and gave him 2 options, win the next election, or have the country collapse 15 years from now, hed take the election without a second though.

so i guess ill give you the preconditioning since i come from a conservative family but there is no cognitive dissonance. i have a higher loyalty than any party or president. and i believe many republicans in washington do as well, and thats where youll find the real cognitive dissonance.