Quote from: johnyj on March 17, 2020, 07:15:39 PM

Quote from: antikvark on March 16, 2020, 02:40:22 PM

Market products such as bonds or fiat currencies also have three phases. It is just that instead of utilization phase, they have the liquidation phase. When a corporation issues a bond, or a bank new units of dollars via loan, this is the creation phase. When the corporation or a borrower put them on the market, the products enter the circulation phase. Finally, when bond maturity date occurs or a borrower makes the loan repayments to the bank, this is the liquidation phase. And the same as with iPhone, it is this phase where the value of a product actually comes from. Namely, in the liquidation phase the bond issuer pays principle to bond holders, while the borrower pays goods and services to dollar holders. What does it mean to pay principle or goods and services. Well, at the beginning of the circulation phase, people invested their money into bonds or goods and services into newly issued dollars. In that way the bond issuer and the borrower received monetary or non-monetary value. For that reason, they have to pay back such value to people who became the holders of bonds or dollars in the circulation phase. The value is paid in the liquidation phase. In this phase the bond issuer pays principle to bond holders, while the borrower pays goods and services to dollar holders to get dollars for the loan payments. In that way, these products are taken out of circulation or in short, they are liquidated, while their last holders received value.

Great! OP you seems to be able to do some independent thinking, lets discuss it

Your theory that fiat money also have phase 3 is difficult to grasp: When you liquidate bond, you get fiat money (if that is what you call "received value"), but what you get when you liquidate fiat money? What kind of "received value" you get from liquidating fiat money?

I think that the usage of the word "liquidate" in your definition is a bit strange. Normally liquidation means selling one product in exchange of more liquid assets, typically USD. You never liquidate USD, at least I have never heard about such terms

Dollar is debt based product, just like bonds. It is just that dollar issuers(banks and borrowers) borrow and return goods and services from the public, while bond issuers borrow and return money. Liquidation of dollars is taking dollars out of circulation via loan payments. Obviously, prior to liquidation, borrowers had to give (trade) goods and services to the last dollar holders in order to get funds for loan repayments. This is how these holders receive value prior to liquidation. After dollars are liquidated they are again put into circulation with new loans. With loan payments they are again liquidated and so on. As you can see, dollars are in constant cycles of creation(loans), circulation(means of exchange) and liquidation (loan repayments). Hence the three phases. The last phase is where the value is received. Bitcoin lacks this phase, the same as ponzi or pyramid schemes.