Quote from: P4man on September 27, 2011, 09:39:00 AM

Quote from: BitcoinRedLight on September 23, 2011, 01:31:12 PM

Half the Bitcoin wealthys stash could be worth far more, later, if they would just pump half of their stash (i.e. some healthy percentage) into the Bitcoin infrastructure now. Mind you, since they hold the Bitcoin wealth, they would be investing in their own holdings.

This makes no sense whatsoever. What exactly do you suggest they do? Sell their bitcoins? That will collapse the value and achieve precious little otherwise. Spend their bitcoin on bitcoin sites? Great, but its no different than selling them and buying the stuff with dollars.

The need is for a Bitcoin economy. As you correctly point out, the current use modality is that spending Bitcoins = buying stuff with dollars, because the merchant immediately translates in and out of dollars.

We do not have a Bitcoin economy, we just don't. We have (at best) a bunch of people doing arbitrage, in one way or another (and at worst, a pyramid).

The question is how do we go from here to a working economy? There are two essentials: 1) much better infrastructure and 2) engines of use. Both of these require investment.

The first need is well discussed by Gavin and others, but it goes beyond security and scalability. Bitcoin also must have a wide array of access vehicles, ease of use interfaces, idiot proof point-of-purchase sales mechanisms, etc. These developments are moving forward but they are also struggling mightily. Little garage guys are putting their heart and soul and time and money into development. They are carrying the flag as far as their personal resources allow and then dropping dead, used up. How many of them have you seen come and go already? For the Bitcoin rich to simply chalk up these "losers" to casualties of war, and then continue to sit back and wait for some other bright guy, full of inspiration, to pick up the flag and move it forward is a recipe for Bitcoin implosion.

The second need is for 'engines of use'. At present, Bitcoin is a genius-proof-of-concept looking for a killer app. This should not be, because the advantages of Bitcoin immediately lend themselves to killer apps. I posted an article about that here http://bitcoinredlight.com/2526/bitcoin-killer-apps/, but (regardless of what one believes may be 'the killer app') the point I'm making right now is that Bitcoin entrepreneurs need Bitcoin venture capitalists! Anyone who does not hold a fair amount of Bitcoins and is a Bitcoin entrepreneur knows, all to well, that the prospect of even surviving are thin, letting alone getting "Bitcoin rich". The Bitcoin economy lacks support for the entrepreneur, so he all-too-often drops dead (out).

Quote from: P4man on September 27, 2011, 09:39:00 AM

What bitcoin needs is more new users who buy bitcoins to conduct trade.

NO! This is exactly the Ponzi psychology that will only serve to screw "new users" (chumps, marks). What Bitcoin needs is a going economy in order to welcome, and support, new people - as participants, not as new money to pay-off the earlier players.

Do not think, "new people, new people, new people". Think, infrastructure and engines!

Quote from: P4man on September 27, 2011, 09:39:00 AM

Current bitcoin users buying, selling or hoarding coins is not what will advance (or destroy) bitcoin. Reaching a bigger public is what will make or break bitcoins.

No. If we don't have a going economy then we will just be exporting a pyramid scheme. A going economy circulates currency, whether that's a hundred people or a million.

Look, a harsh reality to face is that the Bitcoin wealthy are mostly just some guys who got incredibly lucky with some very low tech, and low effort, mining. Their eyes are not on Bitcoin. Their eyes are on FRNs. They want to max their cash-out and are largely ruminating on having missed the $30 exit. They remain under the Wagner-to-the-Moon spell (like so many others are in Bitcoin). This is a hoarder's mentality and investment in that mentality makes no sense.

The Bitcoin elite have got to wake-up from getting rich by letting others fall on their swords, i.e. until Bitcoin magically makes them rich. The Wagner-to-the-moon effect is OVER. From here, it's WORK.

We need the Bitcoin economy to produce venture capitalists, and in a BIG way. And this is an investment in their own substantial holdings!

Finally, this quote from FreeTrade:

Quote from: FreeTrade on September 27, 2011, 02:40:48 PM

The smart thing would be to create/fund/invest in businesses that make BTC useful, and spread BTC.

For any one holder of BTC, it might not make sense. A co-operative solution would make sense - a co-operative funded by large BTC holders with the intention of increasing the value of BTC through various initiatives - new businesses, establishing favorable legal precedent, lobbying, etc.

BINGO