Quote from: DarkDays on April 28, 2020, 06:35:22 PM

Unfortunately far too many people are in Bitcoin for the sole purpose of getting rich.

Only a small fraction of people actually transact daily in cryptocurrency, rather than using it for speculative purposes.

However, it doesn't really matter. Over time, the network will continue to develop and get stronger, and when the time comes when the traditional economy collapses, Bitcoin will be built-up and ready for the task of taking over.

So long as we can build Bitcoin to this point, no matter how, then it should still achieve its purpose when shit really hits the fan in the fiat world.

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" <- this was inscribed by Satoshi in the Coinbase of the Genesis block. Sounds a lot like the world today... So we've got some work to do because I don't believe Bitcoin is ready to handle the load of mass adoption yet.

It does matter imo as most of these people will be the ones to dump BTC and never come back again once they find out it does not get you rich in no time. I do understand, however, the important point you make - these people, although in BTC/crypto temporarily, may bring in true believers and investors in Satoshi's vision (damn it, I have to remind myself of CSW's coin every time I mention "Satoshi's vision" now Roll Eyes

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Quote from: The Pharmacist on April 28, 2020, 06:57:06 PM

This paragraph in particular put a chill down my spine. I've often had a feeling that the newer generations will wonder what this concept of "privacy" was, and why some people thought it was so important--and by that point, privacy will be simply an abstract idea and not something that exists anymore.

I never thought of bitcoin as being an enemy of the state, any state. I never figured it would overthrow the banking system or any of that, so I haven't exactly become disillusioned with it as time has passed.

Anyway you laid out your thoughts pretty well, OP.
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Thanks for the kind words.

I was probably too excited about the idea of Bitcoin giving us financial freedom back when I started and I went for this vision initially that it may turn everything upside down. I did not, however, take into account the fact that centralized cryptocurrencies exist so banks would use this to their own advantage, to create their own digital currency that'd obviously be much faster than Bitcoin - centralization is much more comfortable, but comes with a big cost.

Quote from: avikz on April 28, 2020, 07:38:30 PM

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Well, my question is the following: will people still use Bitcoin if they never get rich out of it or just dump it and move on? I honestly thought that even banks working on digital currencies might push for a larger Bitcoin adoption, but a national digital currency will be easy to use compared to BTC. Besides this, there is a degree of so-called "safety" these currencies will provide, I mean you'd probably be able to recover it much easier than BTC..

Anyways, maybe I'm missing something out of the frame. I honestly wish BTC will someday become the majority's interest. I guess its mission is now divided in two paths: one going towards anti-crypto regulation and one starting from an increase in people's interest towards privacy.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on April 28, 2020, 07:46:23 PM

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Couldn't agree more, unfortunately. Tor, Monero and other privacy-focused software and new tech will not only become more important as time goes but will also probably become a large target to our surveillance state.

I've only recently started going out of radar, although I am sure I cannot do it completely. I can not remove all the previous fingerprints, accounts I am now locked out of, pictures of me I (or anyone else) have uploaded anywhere on the Internet or on any chat and so on. They exist and they are going to probably be enough for them to recognize my behavior on the Internet - they surely are more advanced than we believe. I consider that even the way we write is a very easy way for them to recognize the link between few accounts.

What's sad is that we're looking at "sci-fi" movies and playing games such as Watch Dogs without even realizing that we're actually already entered that kind of world where some will prefer to continue living a good life under surveillance while others will want to get out of their cage and chase freedom, implicitly becoming a suspicious target.

Quote from: gentlemand on April 28, 2020, 07:55:57 PM

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Agreed! On the other hand, the only thing that could probably happen to destroy the core of Bitcoin's purpose is the governments stating "Well, we have done some research and found out that a very large percentage out of crypto's volume is used in illicit activity. Hence, we have decided to officially ban the use of cryptocurrencies starting from <date>". It's probably the only way to really finish off Bitcoin right now that I can think of, besides extreme regulation and the majority of people losing their interest in it.

Oh man, I really hope we do get to the point where enough people abandon fiat and move on from it.

Quote from: squatter on April 28, 2020, 08:22:32 PM

A lot of people underestimate the positive aspects of speculation. It attracts lots and lots of adopters. Some of them will lose their shirt in the market and go on to write Bitcoin off as a scam, but some -- or even most -- will stick around. It's an amazing technology.

I don't make a big distinction between speculators and "people who actually use Bitcoin as a currency." A lot of people take issue with the former group. I don't see them as a problem as long as the network retains a healthy degree of spending and usage -- as opposed to 100% of people hoarding.

This links with my point from a few paragraphs above in this reply. I probably did not express the last two paragraphs in the OP the right way - I meant to say that we're chasing fortune completely ignoring the fact that we are throwing our privacy away, which should've been the no. 1 thing we're looking for.. like people using centralized exchanges and willingly giving out all their personal information and documents chasing wealth - we're willingly giving information away for free to some entities without realizing how much this information actually costs.

The situation where you aren't allowed to withdraw from an exchange without KYC is literally paying an entity to give you back your money after you've earned them fees through your transactions. Sabotage, in other words.

Thanks to everyone for the replies, I really appreciate it and it is a very interesting conversation indeed.