Quote from: Omen1855 on March 01, 2014, 02:19:00 PM

Quote from: kkaspar on March 01, 2014, 01:51:38 PM

I don't think that it's a ponzi, it's more of an bubble and an abomination on the original idea behind bitcoin.
The original idea was to keep the bitcoin network spread out because everyone who has a computer, can be involved with mining bitcoin with their existing CPUs. That means that no additional resources need to be wasted to create machinery that supports the bitcoin network and only electricity is used. ASICs ruined the entire concept and actually started to reward those who contribute most to unnecessary wasting.

I agree completely

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The idea should be not to build faster and faster hashrate, but to keep the hashrate down and the network spread out as much as possible. The network doesn't gain anything with increased hasrate, no speed, no security, no anything. People are just buying ASICs, so they could get a piece of the bitcoin hype pie, while actually not realizing that their ASICs contribute to absolutely nothing that could be considered relevant.

Again I don't see any advantage of an ever growing and centralising mining industry. The upside of the ASICs is that they cannot be used for anything but Bitcoin mining, so if we find an equilibrium, where it is unprofitable to run a professional and profitable mining operation (Server space is expensive and the cost of something going wrong, hiring extra personal etc. is very risky). So why would you turn off your ASICs then, as they cost you a lot of money, and will at some point stabilise until the next big thing comes along. So the upside is that thanks to ASICs, even if BTC prices drop for a while, the network will not die. And once there's a lot of money involved in this industry, they will also do everything in their power to keep Bitcoin alive.

Not to say that I lost a lot of money on batch #3 Avalons, but made a good deal more than ROI with my KnC Jupiterss (I must've been very lucky if I read all the negativity).

First of all we need to get rid of this pre-order nonsense. An ordinary company seeks investors, works unbearable hours as not to dilute to the investors, and brings a product onto the market directly for sale. That's how Bitmain operates and that's why I think they're one of the few with still a good reputation. I never went below ROI on a Bitmain, as I could calculate with less error margin when I would ROI and what my expected profit would be.

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Scrypt is better, because it uses the existing GPUs and therefor no new hardware has to be created to chase a worthless goal. Primecoin is also very interesting because it can still be run only by CPU. A lot of people who aren't into gaming don't have good GPUs for other uses, but everyone has a decent enough CPU, and so it's easier to keep the network more spread out. But the price isn't currently set by how good is the quality of the coin, but hype is the thing that sets the price. And Bitcoin has almost all the hype.

I disagree on several points.
- If I recall correctly, scrypt was intended to be GPU proof as well. But correct me if am wrong.
- Scrypt ASICs are hitting the markets, and are in my opinion a bad investment for those just a little late to the party, since the developers of the scrypt coins one of their ambitions was to keep ASICs out, and so I think is the reasoning of most miners. Also the difference in hash rate is not spectacular, just the power consumption. So if majority chooses to alter the algorithm, your scrypt ASIC miner is worthless.
- Bitcoin introduced lots of innovation and solved the problem of making digital items scarce, through the use of a public ledger. It was the first to market and revolutionary. Other coins might be better, I certainly hope so after all those years, but they evolutionary.
- It's all about market cap and money, why would any business switch to a coin with a lower market cap. A 5 year hype is a feat by itself, I honestly think it's more than that.

But from a miner's point of view, I agree GPUs were fantastic, you could sell the hardware and upgrade with minimal loss, since it has other purposes. The companies behind them are mature enough to ship massive quantities and the mining sector comprised only a small part of the use case. Just trying to look at it from many angles, and not intending to disagree with you totally.

Being able to change the script to defeat purpose built technologies to take advantage of a community project would be a good thing for all the coins, keeping what the original author intended for the crypto coins.