Quote from: squatz1 on May 26, 2020, 05:53:02 AM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on May 26, 2020, 01:33:48 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on May 26, 2020, 12:32:48 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on May 25, 2020, 09:22:33 PM

Quote from: squatz1 on May 25, 2020, 08:08:43 PM

I don't think we have to set it up to the degree of -- potential to change the outcome of an election -- but I still do agree with the sentiment here. I doubt there are many cases that can be found of voter fraud to begin with, let along with the chance of changing the outcome of the election.

A vote that is illegal is a problem even if it doesn't change the outcome of the election -- effectively it cancels out the vote of someone who is legally allowed to vote. But yes, there should obviously be more attention given to the time where the outcome of the election was (or could've) been altered.

Absolutely, fraud is fraud and needs to be prosecuted regardless if it's successful or not. I'm just saying that this whole idea that Democrats (or Republicans) engage in election fraud on a massive scale is far from a "documented fact" and it doesn't really make much sense that a political party commits such massive fraud but it doesn't affect the outcome and they never get caught.

BTW many types of election fraud are federal crimes even if committed in local elections. So the conspiracy theory that states are hiding something doesn't make much sense either. Trump could send the FBI (or the Space Force since he obviously doesn't trust the FBI) and blow this thing wide open.

Oh yeah you're totally right when it comes to this. This is why I said that if Democrats are doing it then why aren't Republicans doing it -- the reason is that it isn't happening (at least on the scale that some are talking about).

Lol on the Space Force thing, but yeah -- the Feds are the people that investigate this, so if Trump really thinks that he can back his claims he could form task forces and such to combat this. Could literally just sign an executive order tomorrow directing them to investigate claims of this.

It really comes down to the fact that there are more Democrats that don't vote than Republicans, and if we make it easier to vote, there will be more Democrat than Republican voters who wouldn't have voted otherwise.

In other words, anything that makes it easier to vote = win for Democrats. Harder to vote = win for Republicans.

When Democrats try to make it easier to vote, Republicans accuse them of allowing voter fraud.
When Republicans try to make it harder to vote, Democrats accuse them of voter suppression.
That's how it's been for years. It's just politics.

I'm sure if it were the other way around, we'd see the same arguments being made. Democrats would be the one pushing laws to make it harder to vote and Republicans would be accusing them of voter suppression.

Trump is taking it to a whole new level. In 2016 he said lost the popular vote by 3 million votes only because there were up to 5 million illegal votes cast for Clinton. He's already laying the ground work for 2020 claiming it will be the most rigged election in history. He's also convinced many that there is exactly a 0% chance that he will lose in November. A narrow Democratic victory in Nov could actually be a disaster.

Eh I don't think that all of the Republican ideas about securing the voter system is bad. I do think that it is very important to ensure that every vote in the US is done by a citizen of the US that has the right to vote by the guidelines established by their state.

Do I think that you should be required to have an ID to be vote? Yes - but if this is a requirement in your state, I think the state should pay for the ID card for all people (or I guess those under a certain income level)

Do I think that you should purge the voting rolls at some point that is determined by independent researchers / experts (and not the governor) yes.

So, yeah.

Yeah, I agree with you on the voter ids.

I'm just saying if more voters benefited Republicans instead of Democrats, it would be the Democrats pushing for voter ids and Republicans pushing back.

I'm not sure what the 'best' system looks like, but it's somewhere between what the dems want and what the republicans want. Oh, and (eventually) it involves some sort of block chain. No paper ballots.