Quote from: wozzek23 on May 29, 2020, 03:50:37 PM

Quote from: Paleus on March 17, 2020, 03:41:04 AM

It is a simple yet not easy question to answer: why does bitcoin have value?

All these long stories are quite unnecessary, you should have just gone straight to the point of what youre trying to say, which is utility. Its all about trust, and people make use of what they trust. When people trust something, they invest in it without fear because they believe in it. By them investing and making use of it (utility) it will start to have value. The community is whats holding Bitcoin , if people should stop believing and investing in it, it will fall to zero.

Quote from: lyka on May 28, 2020, 07:31:20 AM

In other words, this bank determines how much bitcoin can participate in the real economy. And thats right if you dont want chaos. Well, if you want chaos, you are an inadequate person. That, in fact, is all.

I understand that you mean that a miner (the possible first level seller of bitcoin) will sell bitcoins only for cash; from this you mean that how much bitcoin in circulation or participating in real economy is based on bank? I guess people may sell bitcoins NOT only for cash but also services. It means number of bitcoins which are participating in the real economy does not need to be depending on bank. I mean people get bitcoins by paying cash and by working for bitcoins as well.

Dear wozzek23, I would like the following to be understood: the practice of widespread trade exchange is the only thing that is eternal. And this is what defines the essence of any payment symbol. All derivatives and technologies, all these futures and so on, they are finite. The existence of states sometimes has big surprises, and what could not have been supposed 3-5 years ago suddenly becomes a reality. The same applies to the economic structure of the civilization of the planet.
I do not just believe, I understand that the future is an emission-free economy, in which there will be no derivative financial instruments, and no surplus value from the air. But for this, the world must become truly united.
It should be understood that bank interest and derivative financial instruments are not only a means of making profit and enrichment. This is a powerful catalyst for scientific and technological progress. It works like this: you are a businessman, you took a loan to start a business. To pay off your debts, you must control your business so that it constantly strives to be better than your competitors.
So, our conditional futures and bank interest is a catalyst. But, when you rush to the airport, and you see 200 km / h on the device, you know that you will slow down as soon as you arrive, and get out of the car to transfer to the airliner. And when you take off, you will be supported in a quiet flight by physical laws that are important for the car too, but not intended for flight.
Why Libra or TON with so many followers can bring trouble for a relatively stable transition to a new economic model? But because they embody an emission-free model too early. For now, emissions are needed and important for stability. It is clear that this has a limit, but the basis for such a transition should be ready.
Why is bitcoin not dangerous in the same role? Because it cannot become the basis and base of premature broad payments.
But Bitcoin may have additional features. About which no one is talking yet, and most people simply do not think.