Quote from: Petopas on March 02, 2014, 02:32:59 PM

Quote from: TheFootMan on March 02, 2014, 09:19:28 AM

Thank you everyone for all the input, I think there's a lot of good input here.

I will make a few bulletpoints to clarify my position:

- I don't think MtGox is 'too big to fail'.
- I agree personal responsibility is #1, and I see it's very common in society today for many not to realize this.
...

thanks for your post.
that's one of the most advanced posts I've read about cryptocurrencies so far (and one of the longest as well). being guided by the opposite of the dark triad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad) will ensure the future of bitcoin. that said, the value of bitcoin positively correlates to cohesion of its participants. according to that assumption, the highest self-interest would be to help sort things out at mtgox although not affected at first sight (like myself).

Never heard about 'the dark triad' before, but I read that wiki link and learned something new - and I always enjoy learning something new. So thank you for that. I can agree with your conclusion here as well. Thank you for your post.

Quote from: cr1776 on March 02, 2014, 02:39:36 PM

I think everyone has sympathy for these people, don't confuse discussing something logically with you as having no compassion for them. Certainly there are plenty of people who just didn't know not to keep bitcoin on an exchange even though it has been stated by many hundreds of times - in fact I know a technically adept guy who had a few bitcoins at Gox because he just didn't get around to moving them. Stating the fact that if you don't have the private key, you don't own bitcoin, is trying to help to educate people to the benefits of bitcoin.

It is always best to educate yourself prior to investing, and a lot of people did not investigate Gox enough. I've been telling people not to use Gox for more than 18 months because they just seemed inept.

Regarding this:

Quote

Most inventions that has become mainstream has been made so that you do not need to know the underlying technology, and you don't need to be sophisticated to use it.

This is true, but we aren't there yet. This is like the internet in 1988. Some people were using it, but it was not easy to use telnet, ftp, and gopher for the average grandmother. It wasn't for another 10-15 years - maybe 5-10 years after the web became available - that it became pretty easy to use. Ease and safety will come. Things like ardware wallets so you don't think you need to store BTC on an exchange, easy, more reputable exchanges. (Just think though if the USA hadn't had a $20+ million cost to set up an exchange due to all the rules and regs for almost 50 states (iirc 2 don't need a license), Gox probably would have had better competition years ago and not gotten this far!)

Quote from: TheFootMan on March 02, 2014, 09:19:28 AM

Thank you everyone for all the input, I think there's a lot of good input here.
...snip...

I'm not up to date on the development of hardware wallets, but I agree that will be great when it goes mainstream and is easy to use. Also, I did not want this thread to turn into a thread where we fights out who's right and who aren't. I'm interested in sharing and learning, not to prove something or to claim that I'm always right. The fact that I pointed out compassion as one of the things I think is important does not mean I accuse the rest of you for not having compassion.

From experience in technical fields I recognize that quite a few people are very detail oriented, and have a problem seeing the entire picture. And males in general are less compassionate than women, which is hardwired into the genes.

I realize most of you are great persons that have thoughts for more than the mere technical side of things, and as one matures, the realization that one's a part of a whole, and everything is interconnected becomes more apparent.

While some teenagers mine in their basement, and do some satoshi dice and don't really care about the impact on society that bitcoin have, I see a lot of the older participants (30+) in the system do have this in mind, and that's why I'm still involved, even if some of the magic was removed when Gavin called the people in this forum a cesspit. I figured this was greater than Gavin, and as such I should not care too much of his comment, although I really had him in high regard before he said that.

I'm merely trying to direct attention to what I believe is the best. This might not be in line with what everyone else think is the best, but in general I do care about other people and their well being, and I believe in being honest, and honor promises and acting ethically. Not saying that I'm a saint or perfect, as nobody ever will be, but I think having a broader view than mere self interest is beneficial, and while it cannot be expected by young people, I think it should most definitely be expected by older people. And a lot of people are doing great things for bitcoin and deserve praise and a clap on the shoulder, but those who are not 'acting in the best interest' for bitcoin should not be allowed to hold important positions, or given too much credit.

While it always can be discussed what's in the best interest for bitcoin and who's to decide what is, I think that adults are able to look at my message and realize what my point is.

This thread is one of the more constructive threads I've experienced for a while on this forum, and I thank you all for that. I'm frankly tired of all the trolls and silly posts this forum is often riddled with.

Whereas there are indeed some people that qualifies to be a part of the 'cesspit' Gavin talks about, there are also a lot of very non-cesspit people around here.

And besides, Gavin is just nothing more than a normal man, and I can imagine it can be really annoying when you really contribute a lot to bitcoin, and then you have all these people contributing virtually nothing and just complaining - but they're still a part of the community and buys bitcoins, purchase goods with bitcoins, trade bitcoins and make it all possible. So the elitist group in the community would be quite lonely if it wasn't for the 'cesspit'. Anyway - that's what was on my mind. Thank you again.