Post
Topic
Board Politics & Society
Re: 22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution
by
BitChick
on 04/03/2014, 18:10:23 UTC
Creationists mostly deserve kindness and understanding, not scorn.

Not anymore.

Their blatant attempt to corrupt and twist science in order to re-package their delusion is unforgivable.  It will be met head on with reason and logic.

Did you not see my post directly above yours?  There are laws that show that that information had to come from an intelligent source.  Who is doing the "twisting" and "corrupting?"   There is plenty of logic and reason to support intelligent design.  If you are so sure of your position just give me an explanation of why you do not agree with my points above.  Otherwise I will assume that you are not using your reason and logic to counter them.

Actually you only make one point:

Quote
1) Since the DNA code of all life forms is clearly within the definition domain of information, we conclude there must be a Sender.

all other points assume that point 1 is true and therefore don't stand on their own.

Your conclusion that there must be a sender is also your premise. There must be a sender. And your other arguments proof the sender by a proof that is only possible when you already assume that there is a sender.


TL.DR. The argument that there must be an intelligent sender for information to exist is just pulled out of thin air, with no proof that it is true or any arguments to back it up. Without this assumption the rest of the arguments are totally hollow.


How does a robot work?  If we take away the computer chip the robot is useless.  We can look at the laws of nature and see that without information things will not function.  Without DNA, all living creatures would not be able to do anything either.  So this is a major point.  There is information encoded in us.  There had to be a sender of this information.  Who that "Sender" is can be debatable, of course.

As I am thinking about it, the last three points can stand on their own as well:

5) Since information is a non-material fundamental entity and cannot originate from material quantities, and since information also originates from man, we conclude that man's nature must have a non-material component (Spirit)
6) Since information is non-material entity we conclude that the assumption "The universe is composed solely of mass and energy" is false.
7) Since biological information originates from an intelligent sender and all theories of chemical and biological evolution require that information must originate solely from mass and energy alone (no sender) we conclude all theories or concepts of chemical or biological evolution are false.

Information is non-material.  It is kind of like having a computer chip but with no information on it.  Let's say we did evolve.  It would be kind of like a computer evolving with a hard drive, but where would the software come from that runs the computer?  The same could be said about our bodies.  If our bodies evolved, where did the encoding of our DNA come from?  As far as I can see evolution is based solely on mass and energy alone but information does not come out of mass and energy alone.

7. can't stand on it's own.

5. "and cannot originate from material quantities," assumption out of thin air. + "since information also originates from man" biological information (as you call it) doesn't originate from man --> false

6. Information requires mass and/or energy to exist. Without Mass and Energy there is no Information. This point is simply false.

Also the analogy with Hardware and Software may be nice to simplify organic live. But they can't be ultimately used to describe it. That a robot has a chip with software in order to work that needs to be programmed by a programmer is a useless observation to determine if live is "programmed" The robot analogy reveals no clues about any sender.
This is basically just the "Blind Watchmaker" Argument, which watches only the complete end outcome. Take away one part and the construction doesn't work any more. Take away one part and the construction doesn't work any more, therefore everything that doesn't work without all parts has to be constructed.  But constructions simply are not live. But Rannasha has already answered better.



The point was that evolution is based solely on mass and energy.  Information is not even factored into the equation.  However, information cannot come from just a big bang.  This is not evident in our world.  So the point is that there is a "non-material" element to information.  The question then is "Where did information come from?"  Our DNA has very complex information encoded in it.  That shows a supremely intelligent entity put the code there.  It would be like having a computer with an highly complex design in the software yet we just all think "Wow. It is great how that software just evolved from nowhere."  Why is that not possible?  Software on a computer is much less complex than our DNA.