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Quote from: PhydeauxLeChien on March 04, 2014, 03:24:41 PM

Creationists mostly deserve kindness and understanding, not scorn.

Not anymore.

Their blatant attempt to corrupt and twist science in order to re-package their delusion is unforgivable. It will be met head on with reason and logic.

Did you not see my post directly above yours? There are laws that show that that information had to come from an intelligent source. Who is doing the "twisting" and "corrupting?" There is plenty of logic and reason to support intelligent design. If you are so sure of your position just give me an explanation of why you do not agree with my points above. Otherwise I will assume that you are not using your reason and logic to counter them.

Actually you only make one point:

Quote

1) Since the DNA code of all life forms is clearly within the definition domain of information, we conclude there must be a Sender.

all other points assume that point 1 is true and therefore don't stand on their own.

Your conclusion that there must be a sender is also your premise. There must be a sender. And your other arguments proof the sender by a proof that is only possible when you already assume that there is a sender.

TL.DR. The argument that there must be an intelligent sender for information to exist is just pulled out of thin air, with no proof that it is true or any arguments to back it up. Without this assumption the rest of the arguments are totally hollow.

How does a robot work? If we take away the computer chip the robot is useless. We can look at the laws of nature and see that without information things will not function. Without DNA, all living creatures would not be able to do anything either. So this is a major point. There is information encoded in us. There had to be a sender of this information. Who that "Sender" is can be debatable, of course.

As I am thinking about it, the last three points can stand on their own as well:

5) Since information is a non-material fundamental entity and cannot originate from material quantities, and since information also originates from man, we conclude that man's nature must have a non-material component (Spirit)
6) Since information is non-material entity we conclude that the assumption "The universe is composed solely of mass and energy" is false.
7) Since biological information originates from an intelligent sender and all theories of chemical and biological evolution require that information must originate solely from mass and energy alone (no sender) we conclude all theories or concepts of chemical or biological evolution are false.

Information is non-material. It is kind of like having a computer chip but with no information on it. Let's say we did evolve. It would be kind of like a computer evolving with a hard drive, but where would the software come from that runs the computer? The same could be said about our bodies. If our bodies evolved, where did the encoding of our DNA come from? As far as I can see evolution is based solely on mass and energy alone but information does not come out of mass and energy alone.

7. can't stand on it's own.

5. "and cannot originate from material quantities," assumption out of thin air. + "since information also originates from man" biological information (as you call it) doesn't originate from man --> false

6. Information requires mass and/or energy to exist. Without Mass and Energy there is no Information. This point is simply false.

Also the analogy with Hardware and Software may be nice to simplify organic live. But they can't be ultimately used to describe it. That a robot has a chip with software in order to work that needs to be programmed by a programmer is a useless observation to determine if live is "programmed" The robot analogy reveals no clues about any sender.
This is basically just the "Blind Watchmaker" Argument, which watches only the complete end outcome. Take away one part and the construction doesn't work any more. Take away one part and the construction doesn't work any more, therefore everything that doesn't work without all parts has to be constructed. But constructions simply are not live. But Rannasha has already answered better.

The point was that evolution is based solely on mass and energy. Information is not even factored into the equation. However, information cannot come from just a big bang. This is not evident in our world. So the point is that there is a "non-material" element to information. The question then is "Where did information come from?" Our DNA has very complex information encoded in it. That shows a supremely intelligent entity put the code there. It would be like having a computer with an highly complex design in the software yet we just all think "Wow. It is great how that software just evolved from nowhere." Why is that not possible? Software on a computer is much less complex than our DNA.

No, the question is where did god come from? According to your logic god can't exist.

Computers and software arent made out of DNA and cells that mutate. If a supremely intelligent designer made us our cells wouldn't become cancerous. We wouldn't have little toes that barely work. We wouldn't have hair growing out of our arses. We wouldn't have such shitty eyesight. God is much more complex than us and a computer, yet surprise surprise, he can exist no problem and no questions asked.

But you are forgetting about Sin entering the world. Sin (and Satan) is who should be blamed for cancer, sickness, pain, abuse, suffering and so on. Sin is like the world's worst computer bug. The only way to fix this "bug" is to ask the extreme "programmer" for the fix. He offers a "fix" but it requires us to accept His fix for it, which is accepting that we cannot fix the bug ourselves and we need Him (Jesus) to come and do it for us.

Although God does care about our physical health and well being, He is ultimately much more concerned about our Spiritual well being. God is eternal. Our lives are going to end on this earth. Death was a product of man's choice in the garden of Eden. It pained Him that we made (and still make) the choices we do. It is like we keep downloading software with bugs all the time. God is willing to clean up our computer for us if we ask Him too but it would be better if we worked hard at keeping our software free of those "bugs." I pray that God will help me live a sinful life. I don't want to grieve Him, out of love for Him. Once we truly understand the nature of God our attitude towards Him changes and in response we want to do everything we can to please Him and keep our lives, with His help, as "bug" free as possible.

Wait, I though there was only one god? Satan is a fallen angel, but now he can mess with the cells of god's creation? Why doesn't satan give us all cancer? Especially Christians. Cancer exists because of faulty cells. Blaming satan for this shit is such a cop out. God is all powerful yet can't even get rid of satan? By the way, Jesus and Satan and their struggles are just metaphors.

Our world is in a "fallen" state. At what point is Satan to blame, or just the fact that the world is now filled with diseases because of the natural occurrence of such things is debatable, of course. Why God allows suffering is an ongoing discussion. But every good and perfect gift comes from God. God is Love. God is Good. If we understand His true nature we can see the world for what it is and put blame where it is due. And God is all powerful but for whatever reason He is allowing us to live in this fallen state, I believe because He wants to see who will choose Him based on our own free-will. He could force us all to serve Him and submit but then how would He really know who loves Him or not?