Quote from: Vlad.Sas on September 08, 2020, 07:05:58 PM

Eu am comparat atitudinea lui cu cea a reporterilor romani care ajung la concluzia setata a-priori indiferent de ce zice interlocutorul si fara sa inteleaga cu adevarat ceva sau sa invete ceva din discutie

Eu sunt cel care nu inteleg nimic din discutie? Sau, de fapt, tu te prefaci ca toate incidentele istorice nu au existat?

Hai sa vedem doar cateva din aceste incidente istorice:

- in primul rand, dupa cum am scris si anterior, firmele care colecteaza big data sunt la dispozitia guvernului, asa cum are acesta chef. Guvernul, care este mare amator de bug data, si-a dat seama intr-un final ca nu poate sa colecteze de unul singur toate datele. Astfel ca a ajuns sa se foloseasca dupa bunul plac de companiile care colecteaza si ele la randul lor date personale. Cele doua cazuri mentionate de mine mai sus au existat in realitate. In momentul in care WikiLeaks a incput sa puna probleme serioase tiraniei guvernului, acesta a silit Twitter si Google sa predea toate datele pe care le aveau despre Julian Assange. Mai mult, a obligat aceste companii sa nu sufle un cuvant despre faptul ca le-a obligat sa predea aceste date. Google ~~s-a supus~~ s-a pus capra in fata guvernului si nu i-a avertizat nici pe Assange, nici pe WikiLeaks ca a predat guvernului toate datele acestora care au trecut prin serverele lor, incluzand email-uri si orice alte forme de date. Acest lucru l-a mentionat intreaga presa internationala. Iata aici un articol din Guardian pe aceasta tema: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/25/wikileaks-google-staff-emails-us-government. Abia peste ani de zile Google a recunoscut magaria pe care a facut-o. Deci sa avem incredere in Google uhm?

Mai departe: Twitter a primit aceeasi somatie. Spre diferenta de Google insa, Twitter s-a ridicat impotriva guvernului, actionand in instanta decizia de a fi obligati sa nu informeze partile implicate despre faptul ca le va preda datele personale. Culmea, a castigat. Si l-a anuntat pe Assange ca ii va preda datele pe mana guvernului. In final, rezultatul a fost acelasi: si Twitter a predat toate datele despre WikiLeaks / Assange catre guvern. Un articol BBC descrie situatia: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-12141530.

Cu alte cuvinte, eu, cel care se uita la Antena3, fara intelege nimic din discutie, observ ca orice data detinuta de o companie poate ajunge oricand pe mana guvernului. Totusi, eu sunt cel care nu intelege nimic. Datele puse la dispozitia Google sunt in deplina siguranta. Se vede.

- in al doilea rand, continuad discutia despre "hate-ul nejustificat la adresa exchange-urilor centralizate": este binecunoscuta zicala "nu sunt cheile tale, nu sunt banii tai". Oare ai idee cine a spus aceasta vorba? Evident ca nu. Iti spun eu: Andreas Antonopoulos. Asta e mai putin important insa, intrucat pe tine nu te intereseaza saq te culturalizezi in domeniul crypto, ci doar sa faci bani. Inclusiv din metode care pun oamenii in primejdie de a-si pierde banii.

Zicala de mai sus a devenit mai adevarata decat oricand, in conditiile in care pana si o instanta de judecata a spus acest lucru: https://www.btctimes.com/news/this-court-ruling-just-made-not-your-keys-not-your-bitcoin-case-law. Mai precis, un om a pierdut bani din cauza unui exchange centralizat, iar instanta i-a spus ceva de genul "pai cin' te-a pus nene sa-ti tii banii in exchange?! I-ai pus acolo, iti asumi". Ce exchange a fost acuzat? Culmea, tot titanul din domeniu numit Coinbase, care in urma cu ceva vreme vindea datele personale ale clientilor.

Quote

A recent decision by a California appellate court has made the cliché saying not your keys, not your bitcoin" case law, shining a spotlight on the importance of Bitcoin investors maintaining custody over their own coins.

This decision came about as a result of a lawsuit against cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase, in which the plaintiff claimed that he has rightful ownership of the digital assets resulting from past Bitcoin hard forks.

Specifically, the lawsuit was centered around the Bitcoin Gold fork, which the exchange refused to provide support for due to it potentially posing security risks for users.

The importance of this ruling cannot go understated, as the court essentially validated the not your keys, not your bitcoin" statement, explaining that investors arent required to hold their coins in an exchange wallet.

There is no requirement that investors keep their coins on exchanges; they can always withdraw the coins to their own private wallets, the court stated

E ok, omul nu pierduse decat 180.000$. Un fleac.

Si, ca tot a venit vorba de Coinbase si de vandut datele clientilor, aspect care in Romania inseamna mai precis a da clientii pe mana statului: iata ce spune Legea 210 din 8 noiembrie 2019, privind activitatea de emitere de monedă electronică:

Quote

Articolul 18
(1) Instituțiile emitente de monedă electronică persoane juridice române care prestează serviciile prevăzute la art. 7 alin. (1) lit. g) din Legea nr. 209/2019 privind serviciile de plată și pentru modificarea unor acte normative trebuie să dețină o asigurare de răspundere civilă profesională sau o altă garanție comparabilă care să acopere, pentru toate teritoriile în care își oferă serviciile, răspunderea pentru operațiunile de plată neautorizate, pentru neexecutarea, executarea defectuoasă ori cu întârziere a operațiunilor de plată sau pentru neutilizarea autentificării stricte a clienților.

Este limpede ca lumina zilei ce inseamna asta, da? si anume: ca in Romania exchange-urile sunt obligate sa (1) detina asigurare pentru fonduri (ceea ce OP a spus ca nu are exchange-ul pe care il detine) si sa (2) dea clientii pe mana statului.

Deci mi se pare mie, sau OP incalca legea, neavand asigurare?

Quote from: Vlad.Sas on May 05, 2020, 03:18:54 PM

Quote

Intrebarea 3: cum poti asigura tu pe cineva de securitatea fondurilor, date fiind toate exemplele de mai sus (acestea fiind doar cele mai cunoscute exchange-uri mari sparte; au existat insa sute de alte mai mici de asemenea)?

[...]

Banii care pot disparea intr-un scenariu dezastros sunt cei din hotwallet-uri (~20%). Momentan avem posibilitatile financiare sa-i returnam in cazul in care acest lucru se va intampla. Pe viitor, adica atunci cand suma de 20% ne depaseste posibilitatile de refund, vom apela la un serviciu de asigurare

- in al treilea rand, discutand tot despre "hate-ul nejustificat": am mai tot scris despre cate exchange-uri au fost sparte si sute de mii de oameni au pierdut zeci de milioane de dolari. Alt fleac, nu?

Hai sa vedem cate exchange-uri centralizate au fost sparte de-a lungul timpului. Gratie muncii depuse de VB1001 in topicul Hacked Exchanges since 2011, aflam despre urmatoarele exchange-uri (cu mentiunea ca lista nu este 100% completa):

Quote from: VB1001 on December 29, 2018, 12:28:05 PM

"Not your keys, Not your Bitcoin"

2011 > 7

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2011 Jun. MTGOX 30.000 2.000 / BTC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox#Security_breach_and_invalid_addresses_(2011)
2011 Jun. Mass MyBitcoin 60.000 4.000 / BTC blog.goodaudience.com
2011 Jul. Ubitex 15.575 1.138 / BTC en.bitcoin.it/wiki/List_of_Major_Bitcoin_Heists,_Thefts,_and_Losses
2011 Jul. Bitomat.pl 231.570 17.000 / BTC coindesk.com/hacker-attack-polands-bitcoin-exchange
2011 Aug. MyBitcoin 1.072.500 78.735 / BTC arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/a-brief-history-of-bitcoin-hacks-and-frauds/
2011 Sep. Mooncoin 22.300 4.000 / BTC @wayne_huang medium.com
2011 Oct. Bitcoin7 50.000 5.000 / BTC coinsutra.com/biggest-bitcoin-hacks/

2012 > 5

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2012 Mar. Bitcoinica 228.000 43.000 / BTC hackernoon.com/a-huge-list-of-cryptocurrency-thefts-16d6bf246389
2012 May. Bitcoinica 87.000 18.457 / BTC hackernoon.com/a-huge-list-of-cryptocurrency-thefts-16d6bf246389
2012 Jul. Bitcoinica 300.000 40.000 / BTC news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-exchange-thefts-forgotten
2012 Jul. BTC-e 4.500 / BTC bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/btc-e-attacked-1343738085
2012 Sep. Bitfloor 250.000 24.000 / BTC coinsutra.com/biggest-bitcoin-hacks/

2013 > 18

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2013 Feb. Bit LC Not revealed 2.000 / BTC themerkle.com/top-5-bitcoin-heists-of-2013/
2013 Mar. Bitcoin Rain 230.000 4.000 / BTC bitcoinsaints.blogspot.com/p/3rd-mt.html
2013 Mar. BTC Guild Not revealed 1.254 / BTC bitcoinsaints.blogspot.com/p/3rd-mt.html
2013 Apr. Ozcoin 100.000 923 / BTC bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/ozcoin-hacked
2013 Apr. ZigGap 195.000 1.708 / BTC bitcoinsaints.blogspot.com/p/3rd-mt.html
2013 May. Vircurex 160.000 1.450 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/
2013 Jun. PicoStocks 130.000 1.300 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/
2013 Aug. Android RNG bug Not revealed 60 / BTC bitcoinsaints.blogspot.com/p/3rd-mt.html
2013 Oct. basic-mining Not revealed 2.131 / BTC bitcoinsaints.blogspot.com/p/3rd-mt.html
2013 Oct. GBL Not revealed 22.000 / BTC bitcoinsaints.blogspot.com/p/3rd-mt.html
2013 Oct. Silk Road FBI confiscation 171.955 / BTC Silk Road - FBI.gov
2013 Nov. Just-Dice 108.807 1.300 / BTC https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Inputs.io
2013 Nov. Bips Not revealed 1.295 / BTC thehackernews.com/2013/11/danish-bitcoin-exchange-bips-hacked-and_25.html
2013 Nov. Bidextreme Not revealed 500 / BTC bitcoinsaints.blogspot.com/p/3rd-mt.html
2013 Nov. bitcash.cz 100.000 485 / BTC coindesk.com/czech-bitcoin-exchange-bitcash-cz-hacked-4000-user-wallets-emptied
2013 Nov. inputs.io 1.200.000 4.100 / BTC wired.com/2013/11/inputs/
2013 Nov. PicoStocks 3.000.000 5.896 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/
2013 Dec. Sheep Market 100.000 5.400 / BTC coindesk.com/sheep-marketplace-track-stolen-bitcoins

2014 > 12

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2014 Feb. Silk Road 2 2.600.000 4.476 / BTC coindesk.com/silk-road-2-loses-bitcoins-hack
2014 Feb. Mt.Gox 473.000.000 750.000 / BTC cointelegraph.com/news/the-mess-that-was-mt-gox-four-years-on
2014 Mar. Bitcurex Not revealed / BTC coindesk.com/polish-bitcoin-exchange-bitcurex-targeted-hacking-attack
2014 Mar. Canadian Bitcoins 95.000 149 / BTC coindesk.com/9-biggest-screwups-bitcoin-history
2014 Mar. Flexcoin 600.000 896 / BTC coindesk.com/bitcoin-bank-flexcoin-close-600000-bitcoin-theft
2014 Mar. CryptoRush 570.000 950 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/#Cryptorush
2014 Mar. Poloniex 64.000 97 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/#Cryptorush
2014 Jul. Cryptsy 7.500.000 13.000 / BTC coindesk.com/cryptsy-bankruptcy-millions-bitcoin-stolen
2014 Aug. BTER 1.065.000 / NXT coindesk.com/bter-nxt-bitcoin-exchange-hack
2014 Oct. KipCoin 690.000 3.000 / BTC selfkey.org/list-of-cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/
2014 Oct. MintPal 1.300.000 / VeriCoin cointelegraph.com/news/mintpal-hacked-considerable-amount-of-vericoin-stolen
2014 Dec. BitPay 1.800.000 5.000 / BTC siliconangle.com/2015/09/17/bitpay-hacked-for-1-8-million-in-bitcoin-during-december-2014/

2015 > 7

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2015 Jan. LocalBitcoins 17 / BTC newsbtc.com/2015/01/29/localbitcoins-hacked-17-bitcoins-stolen-amongst-users/
2015 Jan. 796Exchange 230.000 1.000 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/#2015
2015 Jan. Bitstamp 5.200.000 19.000 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/#Bitstamp
2015 Feb. BTER 1.750.000 7.170 / BTC coindesk.com/bter-to-return-hacked-funds-following-security-partnership
2015 Feb. KipCoin 600.000 3.000 / BTC newsbtc.com/2015/02/19/chinese-bitcoin-exchange-kipcoin-shuts-claims-losing-3000-btc-hackers/
2015 May. Coinapult 42.900 150 / BTC coindesk.com/coinapult-loses-40k-hot-wallet-compromise
2015 May. Bitfinex Hot Wallet Hacked 1.500 / BTC cointelegraph.com/news/breaking-bitfinex-hot-wallet-hacked-bitcoins-stolen

2016 > 5

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2016 Mar. Cointrader Not revealed Shuts Down coindesk.com/bitcoin-exchange-cointrader-shuts-down
2016 Apr. Shapeshift 230.000 469 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/#2016
2016 May. Gatecoin 2.140.000 250 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/#2016
2016 Aug. Bitfinex 77.000.000 119.700 / BTC coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/#2016
2016 Oct. Bitcurex 1.500.000 2.300 / BTC news.bitcoin.com/bitcurex-forced-million-theft/

2017 > 5

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2017 Apr. Yapizon (Youbit) 5.300.000 3.816 / BTC news.bitcoin.com/hacked-korean-bitcoin-exchange-yapizon-offers-ious/
2017 Jun. Bithumb 31.000.000 Crypto coindesk.com/bithumb-exchanges-31-million-hack-know-dont-know
2017 Aug. OKEx 3.000.000 600 / BTC cointelegraph.com/news/chinese-bitcoin-exchange-okex-hacked-for-3-mln-police-not-interested
2017 Dec. Nicehash 65.000.000 4.736 / BTC coindesk.com/62-million-gone-cryptocurrency-mining-market-nicehash-hacked
2017 Dec. Youbit Stolen 17% of its assets Shut Down https://coiniq.com/cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/#2017

2018 > 9

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2018 Jan. Coincheck 500.000.000 / NEM coindesk.com/coincheck-confirms-crypto-hack-loss-larger-than-mt-gox
2018 Feb. BitGrail 187.000.000 /Nano bitcoinist.com/bitgrail-cryptocurrency-exchange-hacked-170-million-nano-allegedly-stolen/
2018 Mar. Foxbit 270.000 30 / BTC finance.yahoo.com/news/270-000-brazil-largest-bitcoin-172549113.html
2018 Apr. Coinsecure 3.500.000 430 / BTC bitcoinist.com/3-5-million-bitcoin-stolen-coinsecure-exchange-hack-security-chief-suspected/
2018 May. Bitcoin Gold 18.000.000 / BTG news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-gold-hacked-for-18-million/
2018 Jun. Coinrail 40.000.000 Crypto bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/south-korean-exchange-coinrail-hacked-40-million-crypto-reported-stolen
2018 Jun. Bithumb 30.000.000 Crypto cointelegraph.com/news/from-coincheck-to-bithumb-2018-s-largest-security-breaches-so-far
2018 Jul. Bancor 13.500.000 Crypto coindesk.com/token-platform-bancor-goes-offline-following-security-breach
2018 Sep. Zaif 60.000.000 Crypto / BTC coindesk.com/crypto-exchange-zaif-hacked-in-60-million-6000-bitcoin-theft

2019 > 16

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2019 Jan. Cryptopia 16.000.000 Crypto / ETH twitter.com/Cryptopia_NZ/status/1085084168852291586
2019 Jan. Liqui Crypto lack of liquidity Shut Down cointelegraph.com/news/ukrainian-crypto-exchange-liqui-shuts-down-cites-lack-of-liquidity
2019 Jan. QuadrigaCX 190.000.000 Blocked coindesk.com/quadriga-creditor-protection-filing
2019 Feb. Coinmama 450.000 emails+passwords ccn.com/exchange-coinbene-swears-it-wasnt-hacked-traders-fear-the-worst
2019 Mar. DragonEx Not revealed Crypto coindesk.com/singapore-based-crypto-exchange-dragonex-has-been-hacked
2019 Mar. Coinbene Not revealed Blocked blockonomi.com/coinbene-hacked-exchange-says-not/
2019 Mar. Bithumb 13.000.000 Crypto coindesk.com/crypto-exchange-bithumb-hacked-for-13-million-in-suspected-insider-job
2019 May. Binance 41.000.000 7.000 / BTC cointelegraph.com/news/hackers-withdraw-7-000-bitcoins-in-binance-crypto-exchange-security-breach
2019 Jun. GateHub 10.000.000 / XRP cointelegraph.com/news/report-nearly-10-million-in-xrp-stolen-in-gatehub-hack
2019 Jun. Bitrue 5.000.000 cointelegraph.com/news/singaporean-exchange-bitrue-gets-hacked-losing-5-million-in-xrp-cardano
2019 Jun. Bitsane Not revealed cointelegraph.com/news/exit-scam-dublin-based-exchange-bitsane-vanishes-with-users-funds
2019 Jun. Bitcoins Norway Not revealed news.trijo.co/news/norwegian-crypto-exchange-wants-to-force-users-to-sell-their-cryptocurrencies/?lang=en
2019 Jun. BitMarket Not revealed Shut Down cointelegraph.com/news/polish-crypto-exchange-bitmarket-shuts-down-citing-liquidity-loss
2019 Jul. Bitpoint 32.000.000 Crypto / BTC cointelegraph.com/news/japanese-crypto-exchange-bitpoint-suffers-32-million-hack
2019 Nov. Upbit 49.000.000 342.000 / ETH coindesk.com/crypto-exchange-upbit-confirms-theft-of-49m-in-ether
2019 Dec. PlusToken Ponzi scammers coindesk.com/chainalysis-report-on-plustoken-scammers-blamed-for-mondays-crypto-selloff

2020 > 1

Code:

Year Month Exchange Amount/$ Hacked Source:

2020 Feb. Altsbit 63.000 Crypto / BTC coindesk.com/new-crypto-exchange-altsbit-says-it-will-close-following-hack

- in al patrulea rand (oare chiar mai are rost?), mai sunt si zecile (sutele?) de tepe date de exchange-uri clientilor, fugind cu banii acestora, blocandu-le fondurile nejustificat, majoritatea fiind listate in sectiunea Scam Acusations a forumului:

The Rock Trading Scam www.therocktrading.com Exchange Review fraud opinion
COINSBIT.IO SCAM EXCHANGE + UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES - LOST 16.700 USD
[WARNING] Yet another SCAM by the shady BITTREX Exchange!
[SCAM] Avrobit exchange (and all yellow clones) Alert
CoinTiger Exchange Scam Accusation
SCAM ALERT: P2PB2B deadly scam exchange
+ alte cateva sute de exemple din sectiunea de Scam Acusations

Toate cele de mai sus nu sunt menite sa iti explic tie de toate pericolele pe care le aduc exchange-urile centralizate, intrucat le stii si tu foarte bine. In fond, esti o cota parte a acestui scam imens.. Tot ce am scris este menit sa deschida oamenilor ochii asupra acestor pericole, dar si sa vada ipocrizia unui patron de exchange care incearca sa le explice cate de frumoase sunt lucrurile. Nu este nimic frumos in a-ti pierde banii si datele personale! Si nici in a te trezi cautat de cineva de pe dark net care a pus mana pe datele tale si incearca sa te talhareasca, nici in a te trezi cu fiscul la usa! Bitcoin nu a fost creat pentru ca oamenii sa fie oprimati si mai mult de guverne, ci pentru a-i elibera de guverne. Nu a fost creat nici pentru a-i imbogati pe patronii de exchange-uri, ci pentru a scoate orice intermediar dintr-o tranzactie financiara. El reprezinta munca de ani de zile a grupului de Cypherpunks.