Quote from: TCraver on March 05, 2014, 12:10:26 AM

The connection of OMIVA to the proposal you sketched previously was not at all clear.

Not clear to you, maybe.

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So your proposed OMIVA model is analogous to Underwriters Laboratory.

UL is voluntary only in the sense that their customers voluntarily seek their inspection and stamp of approval - it does not provide free services. It is a trusted brand/mark only because consumers understand that UL's future income rests on maintaining their reputation as a trusted inspector.

No. UL is voluntary in the only sense of the word that matters: No one is forced to deal with them. Ever. You voluntarily choose to deal with them, or you choose not to deal with them.

Yes, their brand and reputation is a powerful motivator.

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UL has relatively few customers compared to the potential global 'market' for TheCoin distributions - so the size of organization you are proposing is necessarily much larger. Creating such a global organization from scratch would not be quick or easy, which would be a major limiting factor on spread of TheCoin distributions.

Your choice, of course, but no, it wont limit anything really. If people want the coin, they will come to you willingly. Creating just such organizations is part of your process. That, or putting out specs and accepting bids.

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It would also cost a lot to create and operate. Who would pay for OMIVA? That is - what future business might they lose if they became corrupt and started validating false identities in return for a 50% cut?

You have no idea what it would cost to operate, but once again, yes there are costs involved in EVERYTHING. In this case, a one-time validation vs. doing a little dance or whatever you suggested every day. Who would pay for it? The people that come to get validated, because the cost (the fee) is greatly outweighed by the benefits (TheCoin).

As far as corruption, that is somewhat of an issue for anything humans create. But, as far as I understand crypto, OMIVA would take a cheek swab, blood, hair root, whatever for DNA. That DNA gets hashed, and along with the OMIVA key generated for each person, the result gets entered into whatever computer distributes the coin. The DNA insures each person can get only one code.

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If it is the identity-verified coin recipient, and OMIVA is corrupted anyhow, what happens to all the people who had honestly gotten verified by them? Do we discard their identities and make them to pay for new ID verification? Even if TheCoin recipients somehow don't have to pay for the service, they might be cut out of the distribution until a replacement validation organization gets around to re-validate them.

What happens if OMIVA is subverted from inside by a short-sighted crook - not necessarily the whole company, just someone with the right access controls - who doesn't care about OMIVA's reputation, but just wants to grab a quick personal fortune and disappear? What keeps its field agents honest? High pay perhaps?

Meh. Youre arguing about human-created systems. If it was created by humans, it can likely be subverted by other humans. Billions has been spent on this problem. What keeps field agents honest? What keeps cops honest? What keeps bank auditors and accountants honest? What happens if a locksmith company or a bank is subverted from inside by a short-sighted crook - not necessarily the whole company, just someone with the right access controls - who doesn't care about Citibanks or Huge Locksmiths reputation, but just wants to grab a quick personal fortune and disappear?

What happens? You pick up the pieces, improve the system, and go from there.

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Does OMIVA have a monopoly, or would there be multiple ID agencies? If it is only OMIVA, the disruption of any corruption would be universal and massive. If there are multiple competitors, the likelihood/frequency of corruption increases even if they are all somehow qualified. If anyone can start a validation company with no qualification process, you are pretty much guaranteed that crooks will jump into the business. And if there are multiple agencies, what prevents someone from creating a different fake ID with each?

I think it would be foolish to have a monopoly. Let different comers compete against each other for who can do it the best. Much like the costs for a phone are driven down by Motorola and HTC trying to crush each other.

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Which brings us to the question of how OMIVA agents verify personal and unique identity.

- By residence? What if someone moves and doesn't tell OMIVA, but goes to a new OMIVA agent in their new town to create a second identity for a double distribution? What if a group of 4 friends share two addresses under 8 different names to get double identities through two different OMIVA agents? (Lying to landlords and other potential witnesses and spending time in both places to create a convincing facade)? Does OMIVA check up on people at frequent random intervals (increasing its expenses)? How can it tell if those 4 friends have other names and another address, if they spend time at both addresses?

- By Government issued ID? What about places that have none? There are also those who will produce good fake IDs for a fee. Also, a big part of TheCoin system is an attempt to end-run around dependence on and limitations of governments.

By DNA, as I said above. The person who wants TheCoin will come supply it. A DNA hash and a unique code from the authority, hashed together to enter into the whatever system is distributing TheCoin.

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Effort is not cost. As for whether TheCoin is worth the opportunity cost - that would be for each potential TheCoin recipient to decide. For someone unemployed with zero income, I think I know the answer.

Here it is. Here is the fundamental flaw that you dont understand. This is the sticky wicket: Effort IS cost. Let me repeat that because it is a fundamental concept. Effort is cost because it costs you that effort to earn a benefit.

The only thing you have in this world to trade for what you want is effort (read labor). You trade your labor for what you want (most often, money). Every single aspect of everything everyone involved with your project does to set it up has a cost: their labor or effort and the opportunity costs of their choices.

This is why you make the claims you do. Somebody, through their labor, has to create all of the value that you wish to be distributed to others that did not earn it. Whether they earn dollars or BTC or rupees or Litecoin or whatever, it all has to be earned, first.