Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 01:02:34 AM

[edited out]

I am saying that they can’t have their Bitcake and eat it, too.

I don’t fancy that I could stop “those kinds of BIGGER players”, a.k.a. massive financial manipulators, from creating risky derivative clusterfucks. I have said that a few times, in various places here. My point is about regulation—especially, but not only, extra-jursidictional regulation by the Americans!

In the long term, the financial instruments and practices that I criticize can survive only in a regulated environment—viz., in the type of systemically corrupt-by-design regulatory environment at which Americans most excel (although with the advanced Progress™ of the current year, no country is very much better in that regard).

Of course, with the passage of time, legal and financial systems become more complicated and intertwined, and I am with you. I do not necessarily presume that all passage of time brings progress or that all societal changes are progressing towards better.. those are social constructions that are dangerous to presume.

Bitcoin does provide incentives and options that have the potential to make some of the traditional systems to become more honest - but we should NOT expect that those old systems are going to just go away with a kind of "poof" sound.

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

There, they are protected from natural consequences. Quotable nullius: In the soil of regulatory corruption, the seeds of folly grow “too big to fail”. You know the end of that road! “The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks” Right back where we started.

Bitcoin can get along much better without Nanny American-CFTC pretending to protect it, and actually doing the long-term opposite.

How you gonna keep them out? I don't have a problem trying to figure out ways to make systems evolve better, but there still seems to be ONLY so much any of us can do before we start fantasizing about the ought rather than attempting to structure our own finances and psychology for the "is" rather than various forms of the "ought" that may or may not come about.

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

Let people do things that I dislike with Bitcoin; no matter how I may wish that I were Imperator, dictator perpetuo with the power to stop them, it seems that I’m not, and I can’t.

Sure.. there is only so much that each of us can do, and of course, some people become motivated to change their position in order to have more influences in making changes that they would like to see, too.

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

And they are not protected from failing.

Whether quickly or slowly, sure.

Some of us would like some of the shitcoins to die, too, and largely we have to figure out ways to deal with them, because some of them are going to end up surviving way longer than we would like, and perhaps even longer than they should.

All shitcoins, be gone!!!!!!!! I have just proclaimed, it. Shocked

Let me look outside and see if any changes have taken place. Tongue

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

Ultimately, when the moral hazards created by regulations go away, people must learn to stop doing the hazardous things—or else, the people creating the hazards just go bankrupt. As I have said before, in Bitcoin, the risk is not systemic.

I must disclose that you are starting to evolve (or perhaps devolve) into more abstraction than I am willing to entertain... #nohomo.

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

—Unless, that is, Bitcoiners get the attitude that we need to recreate the exact same financial system that we are trying to escape. But now, with Blockchain™! “The Times 03/Jan/2029 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for Blockchain banks”

Damn, on which point did I recently find myself quoting Karl Marx!?

Quote from: nullius on October 04, 2020, 03:15:12 PM

Not that I would expect for [most people] to know enough political theory to be self-aware on this point—or to possess self-awareness on any point.

“Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.” — Karl Marx

A stage prop.

Blockchain needs Blockchain regulation for Blockchain banks to Blockchain innovate Blockchain in the Blockchain digital assets market Fintech Blockchain Blockchain Blockchain Blockchain Blockchain Blockchain B̵͚̪̼̦͝l̶̝͈̀o̴̯̮̓̇̽̽c̵̝̪̘̜̊̄̎k̴̹͔̝̺͋̾̋̀̾͠͝ͅc̷̛̣͐̐͗͆̎̅h̶̢̭̥̻̘̔́̒͐̈͂̐͜â̴̧̼͈̼̦̅͝i̸͇͈͚̚͘n̸̜̤͙͌̊͛ ̴͕̗͍̜͈̤͓͑͝B̷͎͍̤̥̥̲́̅l̷̛̙̐̉̃͋̕͝ǒ̷̼̹͇̱̳̒c̶̥̯̋̃ḳ̷̑ĉ̵̱͑͛͝h̵̳̦͚̣̓̂̚ͅa̵̹̿͗̀͜͝i̶̢͎͎̺͎̩̪̋̏̔̚͠͠n̶̟̟̯͓͇̘̖͒͊̅̓̄͝ ̶̨̲̪̟̘̫̀B̵̞̲̮͚͈̾͂̈́̊̆͜͠l̸̙̠͈̗̖̫̥̊̔͑́͘̕͝o̷̢̜͍̟̬̍͘͠č̸̘͠k̶͎̜͎̔͛̈́̾̚c̸͈͆h̷͚̞͍̞͛̾̉̈̓̆ͅa̴̫̬̱͖̩͓͒̒̈́̅̈́̅̕ͅì̷̢̪̻̄̒͊n̴̨̛̹̭̙̜̋́̌́͂ͅ ̴̗̪̰̤͙͇́̆͒͒B̵̳̘̄l̸͕͓̣̈̑͗̊͘͘ơ̷̧̻̠̞̫̈́͗c̸͍̠̮̪̟̪̽̓̃̒̾̕k̸̠̯̤͈͎͚̮͘͘č̴̗̼͍̒̈̃͠ḧ̸̨̗̩̠̫̀͑̐̚a̶̯̺̤͍̰̽ȋ̵̡͓̤͈͍̞̘̇̕n̴̨̢̢̟̪̫̾͒̈̒͝ ̸̩̟̥̆ͅB̶̨̨̰̯̮̪̣̏͊̊l̶̢̡̛̻̱̄͛͝͝ǫ̶̺̦͌̈́̕c̸̪̈́̅͒̋̕͘͜ͅk̸̛̺͐c̷̢̛̻̽͊̍́̋͝ͅh̵̢̻̣̰̪͕̜̄͑â̸̯̠i̶͖̣̺͗̈́̈́̓͒͝n̴̖̘͂ ̶̠̠̭̞̕B̸̹̘̑l̷͙̘̻̺̥̤̋̈́̀ơ̷̳̮̅̾̽̅̑c̷̡̦̘̖͛͐͆̃̚͜ͅk̷̃̃̑͋̕͘͜ç̸̣̽͐͐h̴͈̻̳͂̓̔͋́̋ậ̵̞̪̼̈́̏͋́̚͠i̵͔͖͉̾͌͆͆̈́̑ͅn̷̛̠͓͔̦̪͌́ͅ ̷̨̖̺̫̺̄B̴͓̣̬̮͚͓̓̽l̵̼̟̻̰̥̫͛̏̓̕ǫ̴̡͕̝̤̩̌ͅc̵̫̭̝̉̃͌̕͝k̴͈̥̹͚̞̥̉͂̑ċ̷̪̮̘̈́͠h̷͇͋̐͗͜a̵̛̲͗̊͌ï̷̡̯̟͔͠ň̶̺̥͍͕͎ͅ ̶̡̡̝́̋̌͒́ͅB̵̨̭̣̮̯͑͜l̵̬̣̻͔͖̈́̀̂͗͝͝ơ̵̢̘̯̰̎͐̑̃c̸͉̼͚͎͔͓͌̃̕ͅk̶̎̀̍̃̊̌͜c̷̖̋̋h̶̗͚̮̱̞̹̑̎̌͝a̷̧͇͚͓͆̅̚ȉ̶̳̽͒̓̈́̿ǹ̴̫̼̰ ̵̲̮͈̜̪̜̇̉̃͛͝B̷̧̖̰̽̎̋̎̔̈́͠l̸̖̬̩̏͌͛̈̀̄o̴̰͙̅͒͌͆̄̓͜͝ċ̷͓̊̄͌̉͠k̷̢̪̰̙̝̀̏c̵̲̳͔̹̽̍͒̑͜ḣ̴̪͎̱͍̭̋̀͒̅a̵̝̭̻̰̟̋͌͝i̴̯̜̦̻̓̀̓̍͌̀͝n̷̡͚̦̖͊̈̏ ̶̧͕̜͛̀̀̓B̷̧̭̠̦̮̋̓͝l̶͔̻̂͐̃̒͝ȍ̶͖̼͉̣͛̃̈̽c̵̫͈̹̫͚͔̊̆͋͐͜ķ̴̧̰͋̿̑c̴̨̛͕̠̯̱̣̭͂̑h̶͙͈̙́ͅa̴̞̱̟̩̞͈̝͋͝i̵̧̪̰͆̀̃ņ̵͍̞̝̀͐̚ ̴̖͒́B̴̬̐̆͐l̶̢̧̲̤̰͖͐̂͐̽ǫ̵̧̰̥̗̰̃c̷̬̫̹̫̈́̓͋́̋k̵̪̮̉c̶̹͂́͐̉̅̅͝ͅẖ̵͕̖͙̖̪̆̓̉͒̅̓̌ǎ̴̛̫̼̩͙̓͒̈̑͝i̸̜̝͍̻͐̓̿̈́͜͠ṋ̴̨̫̭̟̔̕͜ ̷̤̘̘̙̝̽͛͑͆̂̚͜B̸̢̪̳̰̐͋́̅͐̚͘l̶̼͔͈̜͌̏ỏ̴̞͜c̴̭͙̞̜͊͂̈̈́͑̕k̵͔͕̞̳̂̈́͒͗̎c̵̡̟̥̝̏h̴̖̩̫͑͠ä̶̢̡̛͙̲̦́̐̽̑͘͝į̷̩̯̩̹̈́͊́͘n̸̳̠̅̑

Extra boldface has been added to this post, because I’m afraid the size=smaller parts of my above-quoted post were too shy to get attention.

N.b., I am NOT a follower of Rand, or Rothbard, or Mises, any of those schools of thought that are so popular in this space. I don’t idealize Capitalism—to the contrary; as a modern dogma, it is the flipside of Communism. (Title of Marxist Bible: Capital.) I am not a votive at the altar of the Invisible Hand of the Free Market. I do not fancy that market economics could create Utopia (or, for that matter, that Utopia would not actually be Dystopia).

Of course, we have a combination of a variety of values in which bitcoin's global impact helps us to reconsider some of the various paradigms and where bitcoin might fit into already existing systems and societal thought patters around how some of these systems are rewarding /punishing people.

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

I simply realize that at this point in history, the very best that we can do is to NOT take “cures” that are worse than the disease.

You are referring to the "royal we?" Each of us does need to figure out our place in bitcoin, and surely if we want to attempt to influence legislation, banking or judicial systems, we might need to get involved in some of those areas. Alternatively, there is development, too. Or just sitting back and commenting on various forums and hoping some others are inspired by our thoughts?

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

Hailing the intervention of the American CFTC in the Bitcoin markets outside American jurisdiction is like infecting yourself with HIV because you are worried about Covid. You still have the original worry—and now, you have a much worse problem!

I do think that we have to take some of these institutional interventions (like the CFTC) with a grain of salt, and so you are correct that we might not want to just start applauding them without some skepticisms... even though some people do want these kinds of institutional and governmental interventions to feel more comfortable with bitcoin as an investment or even to feel more comfortable holding it or using it.

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:15:17 AM

I said earlier in this thread about BitMEX, in reply to ivomm’s speculation about CME (so to speak), with boldface in the original:

Quote from: nullius on October 03, 2020, 11:09:00 PM

If it is not something that can be done safely in an unregulated market, then maybe you shouldn’t be doing it in an unregulated market. Don’t try to create the clusterfork of the bank-run financial markets in Bitcoin.

Thus concluded a post which began, with large boldface in the original:

Quote from: nullius on October 03, 2020, 11:09:00 PM

Who appointed the United States and its institutions to supervise Bitcoin?

Many or even most governments likely feel that they do not need an invitation, so there is that angle, too.