Quote from: Murwa on October 02, 2011, 10:03:27 PM

Quote from: mobodick on October 02, 2011, 09:21:02 PM

There are too many examples of conflicts than i could possibly write here.
Think of human greed, jealousy, egoism and hate and that is just a start.

Oh common this is basic stuff.

Would you deny that most people are driven by emotions and desires?

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First i asked you about ONE example of something tangible all i got is old school propaganda.

What do you mean propaganda?
It's all over history.
People have feelings and this plan would only work if everyone suddenly decided to ignore them.
Or someone was capable of manipulating the feelings of others to suit the grand purpose.
The idea is based in an utopia and that makes it unachievable.
History tells us that any move towards utopia ends with tyranny.
It's when the leaders become blind to the needs of the people and start forcing their ideas onto them.
That is when revolutions happen.
It's, again, how humans interact.
It is not something that can easily be fixed by education.
Education will help people help themselfs but change is not taught in schools, it needs an incentive, a soil to carry it.
People need to have some sort of bad experience to commit to change.
And i think at the moment most people would not want such a change simply because they have it too good.
That's the reality of things.

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Quote from: mobodick on October 02, 2011, 09:21:02 PM

Or maybe cartain parents wanting (demanding) more for their children.

There is no concept of more in abundance state.
Do you demand more air to your children ?( the most important resource of all you cant live without even few minutes ). Do you need to provide more air to your children ? Are you afraid your children wont get enough air ? ( ok i am but its a matter of monetary system and pollution following so destroying abundance is the case here )

The problem is that parents thinking of their children are egoistical (dictated by their biology).
Their deepest drive is not to have a good earth for all children. They want their child to be better than all other children.
Of course i'm generelizing, but that only shows that there are different people on earth with different sets of goals, short and long term.

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Quote from: mobodick on October 02, 2011, 09:21:02 PM

Then, before you know it, a country stands up and claims they deserve the most because they have the bestest resources.

Countries is just an artificial boundaries that emerged from scarcity environment, when you look at earth from space there are no borders.

And yet there has been no day without a war somewhere in the world for quite some time.
It seems that people and their leaders are pretty much fixated on those borders.
You may say that education will fix it, but i have heared these ideas since childhood and yet i see patriotic and nationalistic ideas in almost everyone i meet in daily life.
People tend to naturally want to form groups (it's better from a survival point of view) and then to stress the border between their group and the rest of their environment in various ways.
You can clearly see this in, for instance, the social dynamics of football (americans:soccer) fans.
You would need large parts of culture and how it influences humans to become extinct.
You would need a global culture that would replace any national identity to even get started.
Have you seen the attempts at a global government and how they failed time after time?
I guess not then.

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Quote from: mobodick on October 02, 2011, 09:21:02 PM

That's human nature, i'm afraid.

There is no such thing , you are 90% result of your environment.
If you were born in middle east you would most likely pray to Allah 5 times a day while hating Yankees at the same time and human nature would have nothing to do with it.

Yeah, well that is kind of a wrong interpretation of those numbers.
It's something popular that gets repeated blindly through the media.
90% of how you are is somehow shaped by the environment, but the roots are in the genes.
There are honestly so many things that are driven by genes that most people tend to take them for granted.
The fact that you can walk, that you can see, that you can hear, think and feel.
All comming from your genetic makeup.
The environment is working on those things but don't ever forget that you are in actuality an interaction between your genes and the environment.
On the one hand there would be nothing for the environment to work on without the genes so it's at best a system requiring both.
On the other hand you have genes that actively interfere with us as an organism.
Making a separation of a system from it's environment is silly. Nothing in reality is separated in such a way.
We are 100% the result of our environment working on our genes.

You give the example of someone in the middle east hating yankees.
But how is that different from a yankee hating an arab?
Or your neighbour hating you?
Is the capacity for hatered not dictated by genes?

By misunderstanding the relation between genes and environment (which often includes large ammounts of other genes) you trivially dismiss a large portion of what makes us human.
Just saying.,

And it comes down to an oversimplified ideal of what you think a human should be that is at the core of the idea of a resource based economy.
The real world, however, is far more complex that this and without addressing this complexity you have absolutely no chance whatsoever to even begin organizing such a revolution.

And maybe i should state again that i am not against the idea of a RBE but i just think that it is not feasible given human nature.

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Genes are only predispositions but environment is the key influence how you actually act.
In countries like Sweden where culturally corruption is something to be embarrassed of, there is very little of it.

Genes are not 'only predispositions'.
Genes play an active role throughout a persons life.
From birth till death and everything in between.

Corruption is like masterbating.
If it's socially unacceptable then it will be done when no one is looking.
Think of all the pedo-priests around the world.
That's human nature for you.
And besides, sweden has a good social care system so noone actually has a lot of complaints.
It's not that they are better people, they just have a better life.
Their natural drives to improve their situation are pacified.
But they are not extinguished and if the social system in sweden collapses people will again be unhappy and corruption will thrive.
And it's just another example of a gene-environment interaction.
The genes want a certain environment to be content in.
And once they are content enough they don't want to lose the environment that made them content and sometimes will even kill for it.

Humans are much more complicated than the idea of RBE allows for.