Quote from: zikzik on Today at 04:43:01 PM

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:30:32 PM

If (if) Betcoin.AG has the type of technical evidence that I infer they must, then disclosing that evidence would indeed be tantamount to providing an instruction manual titled, “How Not to Get Caught Next Time”.

I have been finally asked the questions by the mediator, and as i was saying ALL ALONG, betcoin.ag main argument is in 3 fields

1. IP/VPN (and they dont connect the two accounts based on this)
2. same btc wallet address
3. some same bets at the same time

Now all these 3 points i have admitted in my very first post here.

I obviously cannot speak to evidence that I have not seen. However, Betcoin.AG has explicitly alleged that they have much more than that.

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on October 31, 2020, 06:54:58 PM

He suggested that his account was banned because of the same bets and same Bitcoin wallet. Obviously, this does raise red flags, but it is just a part of a greater body of evidence that we have on these 2 players. [...] He is playing dumb, but if you read through his posts, it's apparent he knows exactly what he is doing here.

Quote from: zikzik on Today at 04:43:01 PM

Now, PLEASE PLEASE think of ANY reason, that they would not release the list of bets here. How would your (and their obviously) argument of "manual titled, “How Not to Get Caught Next Time”" apply here?

I have said my opinion that they should state your balance as requested (or at least provide some reason why they don’t). I don’t know enough about their site to judge whether lists of bets could be in any way sensitive for their part; indeed, as I have said, I have never done sportsbook myself. I do note, they said this:

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on October 31, 2020, 02:49:44 PM

We told him we would provide all wager and balance details to the mediator, but "around 1 BTC" is certainly enough to get things started.

Also, there is this:

Quote from: nullius on October 31, 2020, 11:26:38 PM

Quote from: zikzik on October 31, 2020, 10:33:05 PM

He just simply ignores ANY request for some exact information. Hell, he even still did not provide anybody with the exact balance of my account. Can that somehow put their security protocols in scrutiny ?

I am guessing that it goes something along the lines of advice to the effect that, “If somebody is publicly accusing you of stealing money from him, and demanding that you specify the exact amount that he claims you stole, then STFU and don’t do discovery on a public forum.”

That said, I would think that this kind of information would need to be disclosed through any kind of a reasonable mediation process; and I do not see a reason why it should be kept confidential there.

Quote from: zikzik on Today at 04:43:01 PM

How would your (and their obviously) argument of "manual titled, “How Not to Get Caught Next Time”" apply here?

C’mon, zikzik! After all that I have said on the topic, let’s not play dumb here. I was obviously talking about this:

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on October 31, 2020, 06:54:58 PM

We spend many Bitcoin each year on fraud prevention technology and every time the abusers discover what we have, they come up with new ways around them. As mentioned earlier in this thread, we have banned approximately 500 abusive accounts this year. Through cooperation with some of these accounts, we have gained access to several Discord and Telegram groups with thousands of members, which specifically teach players how to cheat sites, including different methods of exploitation, how to make your region undetectable and how to fake your KYC documents. We learn a lot from these cheats, and just like them, we adapt our security as well.

He suggested that his account was banned because of the same bets and same Bitcoin wallet. Obviously, this does raise red flags, but it is just a part of a greater body of evidence that we have on these 2 players. As this player knows well and stated in the title of this thread, his account balance was about 1 BTC. He is playing dumb, but if you read through his posts, it's apparent he knows exactly what he is doing here.

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 11:46:05 PM

A message to cheaters:

It is easy to get away with malicious and abusive behaviour on naïve sites. —Not easy on sites that are serious about catching you.

I know of open-source code that can do at least some part of what Betcoin.AG claims their security system can do. It’s not a drop-in solution; it may require expensive consultant work to integrate into a site. I am also aware that there exist proprietary commercial systems that can catch you red-handed, if you try to multi-account from a banned region from behind a VPN. These are the same types of systems also used by banks, large cryptocurrency exchanges, and other financial institutions; the systems are expensive, and (unfortunately, in my opinion) quite commonplace in the industry. On non-gambling sites, you are being invisibly checked by such systems every day.

I am not saying that that’s what happened here. I am saying that it is a major issue that the mediator should inquire about.

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on October 29, 2020, 02:22:49 AM

We understand that in these cases, the benefit of the doubt can go to the player. Especially, since we are unable to share publicly the overwhelming evidence against him. The reason for this is that when dishonest players discover our tools to recognize fraud, they move on to new ways to cheat the system. We have invested heavily in these tools, as we get roughly 500 fraudulent players each year. If any of these accounts dispute their resolution, we encourage them to seek 3rd party mediation. In the last 4 years, we have had 0 rulings against us by independent 3rd parties. It is simply not in our best interest to hold this player's nominal winnings when we know going into it that we will have to defend ourselves in the public forum. Taking on this player in the public eye, we assume all the risk.

We have many players each day placing individual bets which are more than double the size of this player's total account balance. We love winners, and like all casinos, we love to promote our big winners, as it lends to our legitimacy and attracts new players. We kindly ask that you allow the process to take its course here and we strongly believe that we will end up on that right side of things. Thanks again to all, and we hope to resolve this matter as soon as possible.

In all fairness to you, zikzik, I do not know Betcoin.AG, I do not know if they are an honest site, and I cannot vouch for them. I simply have never dealt with them before; and I do not vouch easily.

However, reading this thread (and the other one), I see that they say exactly what a legitimate site would say if they had high-tech fraud prevention technology that caught a cheater red-handed.

Only the mediator is in a position to ascertain whether or not that is what really happened here.

Quote from: nullius on Today at 03:30:32 PM

I observe that if zikzik is innocent, then it is to his advantage for the mediator to take some time scrutinizing the evidence. Betcoin.AG gave the mediator something. If that something is wrong, then the mediator needs to figure out what is wrong with it—if that something is right, then the mediator needs to understand it so as to make a clear judgment. Whatever Betcoin.AG showed the mediator, the mediator should not rubber-stamp it!

[...]

That said, obviously, it is in the interest of all parties to get this over with as promptly as practicable. The longer that SBR takes, the longer that this thread will continue; that is certainly not in Betcoin.AG’s best interest.