Quote from: Betcoin.AG on Today at 09:06:14 PM

Quote from: leventturksoy on Today at 08:44:04 PM

I usually don't get involved in controversial issues such as these, since it may seem like I am taking sides, but I would like to add my perspective on this.

Enforcing a player to resort to legal action is a really, really easy way to scare away existing and potential players. Having your BTC locked up by a 3rd party is most bitcoiners worst nighmare - especially on exchanges. Although Betcoin has some reasoning as well as legal rights to keep the player's Bitcoin, it is not only unprofessional, but unnecessary and incredibly damaging to the casino's already diminished reputation. Casino's survive on reputation and holding up a mere 1 BTC is doing 10 fold of damage.

Like I said, I don't like to pick sides, but this thread has taken off and as a result I see it illogical to damage your casino's reputation permanently for such an insignificant amount of BTC. You may be just fine legally , but in the grand scheme of things that really doesn't matter to anyone besides the OP and sheds bad light.

As we said, we know that this is the difficult way to go about things for us. However it is also important that we discourage both this player and other dishonest players from coming to Betcoin, coming to other online casinos or cheating in general. This is not a new thing or something unique to Betcoin. Every online casino and sportsbook bans fraudulent players every day. The only thing noteworthy about this case is the attention it has received.

Using a proxy does not mean that we cannot see where you are playing from. Literally 10 minutes ago, we dealt with another player who was playing from a banned region. We asked him where he was from and he originally lied. We then told him that we know he is playing from a banned region and he admitted it and will receive his full account balance. Had he continued lying, it would have shown malicious intent. Instead, he admitted having lied about his location and in our opinion, that was not enough to withhold his balance.

The OP has not only played from a banned region, but created multiple accounts to abuse the tight limits that we have on low tiered matches. This is fraud and will not be tolerated. We want the community to know this. We also think that the vast majority of players, who are honest, know that if they play legitimately, they will receive their winnings in a timely manner and won't have to go through legal action. We pay out tens of thousands of legitimate players each week, many who receive much larger amounts than this player. As you said, this amount of BTC is nominal. What is important is the message we are sending that we will not tolerate abusive players. This player knows exactly what he has done and is playing the role of someone who is naive. He chose to sign up from a banned region and chose to cheat the site, knowing what was at risk. We have solid proof if this. If SBR doesn't think the proof is solid, they will rule against us and we will comply.

I'm going to quote one part of what you said - it does not make the rest of what you said invalid, I just thought I should pay special attention to it:

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on Today at 09:06:14 PM

Using a proxy does not mean that we cannot see where you are playing from. Literally 10 minutes ago, we dealt with another player who was playing from a banned region. We asked him where he was from and he originally lied. We then told him that we know he is playing from a banned region and he admitted it and will receive his full account balance. Had he continued lying, it would have shown malicious intent. Instead, he admitted having lied about his location and in our opinion, that was not enough to withhold his balance.

What is important is the message we are sending that we will not tolerate abusive players.

Why exactly does lying escalate the issue and case into something that deems the balance un-returnable? It makes perfect sense to lie in that case. If I'm a suspect for a crime and I am asked to confess, without me knowing if the other party has proof, of course I will lie. Any logical person would. It has nothing to do with ethics, I can guarantee the vast majority of even "good" people would lie and say that they did nothing wrong. It only makes sense.

Regardless of what the suspect here did, I think it's unfair that lying about such a thing is a deciding factor. I see this response almost as "we're making a public statement by withholding this user's funds" - which to me, is unreasonable because it shows impartial favor to other cheaters who had their funds returned. I hear about major criminal cases often where the suspect is subject to an insane verdict for the sole reason of deterrence to scare the public away from doing the crime that the suspect committed. Stomping on someone's well-being from a position of power in order to make a public statement is generally frowned upon.

I'll make an assumption here and assume that most of the cheaters that you encounter on Betcoin will not see this thread and be encouraged to cheat should they see you return this user's funds, nor will any cheaters on your website be encouraged not to cheat. It is a poor way to make a public statement.