Quote from: zikzik on Today at 01:12:28 AM

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 11:46:05 PM

So, you admit and stipulate to the wallet evidence? I have heard so many excuses about that type of evidence, from people who were guilty and caught dead to rights! In the real world, it is possible but improbable that “the same bitcoin wallet address” would “deposit to [your] account, and account of the other guy”, if the “other guy” is not actually you. And if the “other guy” is alleged by you to be some unrelated person in another country from amongst a large crowd following your bets, it is highly improbable. It requires a clear, sensible explanation. (I can imagine some unusual scenarios in which this could occur; but for obvious reasons, I will not suggest any.)

i am sorry, but this statement just proves that you did not read the original post in this forum.

I did read it. Though I admit that I skimmed (what was) the middle of the thread (when I first found it); therefore, I just went back and reviewed all of your posts again, from your (exceedingly long) OP forward—reviewed them twice, from start to finish. This is what I found with regard to the above-stated issue:

OP:

Quote from: zikzik on October 26, 2020, 02:45:06 PM

On october 19th, my friend tells me that he finally opened an account in BetCoin.AG (user id 296772 judging from screenshots, username KillyPG. As he is even a bigger newbie in crypto than me, and i owed him money, he asked me if i could help him with deposit of BTC to this bookie. I did, and sent 0.1 BTC for deposit.

Post #17 on Page 1:

Quote from: zikzik on October 26, 2020, 08:26:06 PM

You have discovered that one of my deposits was made from the same btc address as the deposit in the other account (a Montenegro citizen) i have mentioned in my long text.

And i have openly stated that, that i have owed money to this guy, and he asked me to transfer BTC for him. Which i did.

I thought the whole point of crypto was that it is anonymous and not centralized.

(By the way, no: Bitcoin is not anonymous, as I have been telling people since I was at Newbie rank on this forum. Much though I dislike it, that is the reality.)

From my experience with investigations, your story sounds like it is probably a lie. Probably. It could be true. That is why in the part that you snipped, I said that the wallet evidence is “probable cause”:

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 11:46:05 PM

It is probative. Indeed, I think that that in itself rises to the level of probable cause to believe that the accounts are connected, regardless of any other evidence.

Don’t take that too personally. I don’t know you personally. You must understand, many people do lie about these things—so, that is what it sounds like.

I have seen alleged multi-accounters lie about wallet evidence many times. Thus far, I have seen one of these stories turn out to be true, exactly once—and yes, I felt bad for that person. You would be the second one. But I doubt you will be, when it sounds like the wallet evidence is the least of your problems here.

Now, I must ask: Why do you pretend that the wallet evidence is nothing? Even if your unusual story is true, it still looks suspicious, does it not? Please look at it from the perspective of someone who is trying to catch cheaters—someone who has been lied to by many cheaters! I think that that way, you will be more successful in communicating your position. (And thus is my attempt to mediate the dispute, even though I am not the mediator.)

Quote from: zikzik on Today at 01:12:28 AM

I think it is very very unfair that you are making assumptions based what betcoin.ag lied in this thread, without even giving the "defendant" here a FAIR chance to defend himself (at least listen to what he had to say about the whole situation)

this makes me sad Shocked

Your such calumny is NOT “FAIR” to me, given how evenly I have treated both sides—even with suggestions for Betcoin.AG to improve their handling of these matters, which they may or may not appreciate. I have tried to be constructive. And I should advise you, attempting to play on my emotions will not work. I am notoriously hard-hearted; I care only about the truth, and nothing else.

zikzik, I observe that you have pointedly ignored my inference about what other evidence Betcoin.AG seems to be claiming to have. If my inference is correct, I do not want to see that evidence myself; being granted access would impose on me a responsibility that I am unwilling to take, given that I am only a bystander who stumbled into this thread by happenstance. It is why I keep saying that the mediator needs to take a look at it, and why I have been suggesting in bold letters what types of questions the mediator should ask. I think that that is very fair to you, and also fair to Betcoin.AG.

If you are innocent, I wish you good luck and a fair mediation so you that can get your money back. But if you are guilty, rot in hell! I don’t like cheaters. I am quite serious about this:

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 11:46:05 PM

Edited further to add...

A message to cheaters:

It is easy to get away with malicious and abusive behaviour on naïve sites. —Not easy on sites that are serious about catching you.

I know of open-source code that can do at least some part of what Betcoin.AG claims their security system can do. It’s not a drop-in solution; it may require expensive consultant work to integrate into a site. I am also aware that there exist proprietary commercial systems that can catch you red-handed, if you try to multi-account from a banned region from behind a VPN. These are the same types of systems also used by banks, large cryptocurrency exchanges, and other financial institutions; the systems are expensive, and (unfortunately, in my opinion) quite commonplace in the industry. On non-gambling sites, you are being invisibly checked by such systems every day.

I am not saying that that’s what happened here. I am saying that it is a major issue that the mediator should inquire about. If my inferences are incorrect, then the outcome may or may not be unfavourable to Betcoin.AG, depending on the total weight of all the other evidence.

Moreover, I am warning cheaters that you will get caught—sometime, sooner or later, at some site—and it will hurt! Evading detection requires serious skills. People with serious skills usually apply them to activities more productive than multi-account abuse on gambling sites.

Now, besides this...

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 10:08:25 PM

Quote from: zikzik on November 02, 2020, 09:46:54 PM

is there a security reason for them not to exactly specify the balance of my account (if there is a chance that mediator will find me not guilty and i should get my btc back) ?

I think that’s a more reasonable question. Anyone from Betcoin.AG want to address that?

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 10:52:07 PM

There may be other reasons for them to be reluctant to answer any of your questions, given your approach. I do suggest that they should clear this up, at least: A statement of the balances for the accounts in question, at the time of the accounts being closed for alleged fraud. If they have sound reason for not disclosing that publicly, then I suggest that they should say so, rather than ignoring the question.

...is there anything else to discuss in this thread, pending mediation? I think that SBR should step up and contact the parties, when both sides reasonably want for that to happen ASAP!

Quote from: nullius on November 02, 2020, 02:01:23 PM

I think it’s clear that both parties to this dispute can agree: A prompt disposition of the mediation request would be in everybody’s best interest.

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on November 01, 2020, 02:46:49 PM

We have reached out to SBR to see if they will be taking this case and also suggested several other routes the player can take to receive mediation. Thank you.

Quote from: zikzik on November 01, 2020, 02:34:39 PM

I have filed a claim 4 days ago and apart from an automated response acknowledgement of the claim recipience, i have not heard a word from them ...