Quote from: EpicChamp on January 07, 2021, 09:38:46 PM

Quote from: FortuneJack on January 07, 2021, 08:08:50 PM

Quote from: EpicChamp on January 07, 2021, 03:18:38 PM

Quote from: cryptofrka on January 07, 2021, 08:02:02 AM

If the bet was accepted, it should be paid out in full - according to the odds that were available at that moment.

All bookies heavily protect themselves behind a huge TOC wall which basically allows them to freeze your account, cancel your bets, limit your betting positions - they can do whatever they want.

It is our fault we accept it but it's a good thing we have many to choose from, so when things like these occur you make a mental note and pay attention where you play next time.

This still does not give them any right to do whatever they want and go against their own rules. It's extremely disrespectful, unprofessional, and unethical in every way.

I can counter every single point they make in their T&C about this and it's as if they still wouldn't care or change their decision. And it surely isn't my fault if I play by their rules and should win the bet as I normally would.

They really need to show respect to their own rules, their users, and fair play at all times.

And I can guarantee you that if the player I bet on lost the match, I would have never brought this up and peacefully moved on just like I always do anytime I lose a bet.

But when stuff like this happens and I'm denied one of the biggest my betting wins ever, it becomes very frustrating.

Hey there,

Here’s another update regarding the case we’re discussing right now.

FortuneJack has been listening to the thoughts of every member of the Bitcointalk community. Since the early years of our existence, our team has been trying to fulfil the needs of the players supporting our gambling platform as a whole. To be equally fair to every member of our gambling tribe, we’ve decided to credit the user operating under the @EpicChamp, the remaining amount of 0.0006 BTC which adds up to the top of the withdrawal he’s already made, totalling the deposit of the bet 0.14 BTC he made on the De Jong - Altmirano tennis challenger match.

Summary for the transactions & refunds from the beginning all over to the end of the event:

- player has made a bet of 0.14 BTC after the deposit had been made
- enabled the cash-out option of 0.1394 BTC (already withdrawn)
- player has just been credited the remaining amount of 0.0006 BTC, totalling the entire bet sum

As the notification email was sent to the user prior the cancellation, we think there’s nothing left to be paid. Additionally, because the player was aware of the mistakenly provided odd (stated within the thread that he was aware of the odds that were offered by other Sportsbooks), it makes us think that we’re dealing with some sort of fraudulent or unlawful use of the services, as stated into the above-attached section of Terms and Conditions.

Despite us not having an obligation to fully refund account’s fund, our team still has decided to offer the entire deposit amount back as goodwill from our side.

As for the complaint regarding us cutting off the remaining stake:

The above-mentioned scenario showcases the fact that extra winning would not be granted to the user, as the possible winning amount was calculated by coefficient inaccuracy. Additionally, in case us not cancelling the bet, we would be still charging account the extra winning before the approval of the requested withdrawal.

In conclusion, FJ strongly believes that the final decision made from our end fully aligns with the community’s intentions as well as indicates the rightful and equal usage of the Terms and Conditions to every single member of the platform, with no exceptions. From this point, we consider this case to be closed. However, we still welcome other members of the community to share their feedback as it’s always the go-to source for us to improve our platform for future use.

-
FortuneJack

Wow, thank you FortuneJack for your generous goodwill and for crediting me 0.0006 BTC for $23!

You do realize that this type of refund is an absolute no brainer and something that should have been done on the 1st day at the very least, right?

Now let me respond to a few things you just mentioned:

#1 - Let me please remind you that this was the exact notification email that was sent to me 2 hours before the match was about to start:

"Dear EpicChamp,

This is to inform you that game coefficient was changed from 2.6 to 1.7. Therefore, you bet was cancelled .
Sorry for the inconvenience and wish you the best of luck!

Best Regards,
Customer Service Department
FortuneJack Team"

And since you need to provide a legitimate reason for canceling a bet, in this email you are saying that you canceled my bet because of a drop of odds from "2.6 to 1.7" - this is your reason in this email; in other words, a "change of odds".

Well, not only is this inaccurate, but even if the odds did drop from 2.6 to 1.7, it is not that uncommon in tennis + sports betting and is not a valid explanation for canceling a bet in advance. That is not a significant drop at all and it happens everyday for different sports, yet bets never get canceled because of this. I'm sure you're experienced enough in the gambling industry to know this.

However, later on in this forum you told me something completely different - you claimed that you decided to cancel my bet due to a "technical" or "mechanical" error which was a mistake in the odds, rather than a "change of odds" from 2.6 to 1.7. Well, there is a big difference between these 2 types of mistakes or reasons/explanations, and you did not mention anything about this to me in the email.

The fact is that De Jong was given on your website between 3.0 - 2.6 odds in the first 2-3 hours when the lines went live. So if this was such an accident or technical error, why did you "intentionally" keep slowly dropping his odds by 0.2 units every 30mins for 2-3 hours?

Because if this really was a technical error, you would have paused the line right away and made the necessary change within the first 30mins, instead of 2-3 hours. And since you didn't do that, that tells me this was NOT a "technical" or mechanical error, but rather a common misjudgment mistake on your ends for De Jong's chances of winning the match.

And just now you wrote:

"As the notification email was sent to the user prior to the cancellation, we think there’s nothing left to be paid."

So you think that just because you sent me this unjustifiable email in advance that it is ok to not return my remaining stake on top of not counting my bet as a win?

My biggest problem is WHY did you decide to cancel this bet in the first place? What valid explanation do you have for canceling this bet? A small mistake in odds (which was open for 2-3 hours) is not a valid explanation.

I still do not understand why you decided to cancel my bet and think this is ok. No other gambling site canceled this bet in advance for their users, even for those who bet on De Jong at 2.6+ odds.

You are the only one who canceled this bet in advance - why did you do it? Don't you find it a bit weird and illogical that out of all the gambling sites in the world, you are the ONLY one who canceled this bet for those who bet on De Jong at 2.6+ odds when no one else did?

And at the very least, you need to return my remaining stake of this bet for 0.0672 BTC. That is what was at stake for me and it is a lot of money to just ignore and not get paid for in the case of a bet cancelation.

So there is still a lot left to be paid, not "nothing", and a much bigger amount than just 0.0006 BTC or else I wouldn't be bringing this up on bitcointalk community.

2. You also wrote this about me:

"Additionally, because the player was aware of the mistakenly provided odd (stated within the thread that he was aware of the odds that were offered by other Sportsbooks), it makes us think that we’re dealing with some sort of fraudulent or unlawful use of the services, as stated into the above-attached section of Terms and Conditions."

So first off, now you are saying that instead of canceling my bet because of a change of odds, OR because of a technical error - that you decided to cancel this bet because of potential fraudulent or unlawful activities? What does that even mean? This was a regular challenger match that was played out without anything illegal or fraudulent activities going on. Because if it did, it would have been paused or canceled by every other gambling site too, and it wasn't.

And you did not even officially cancel this match on your website for all your users either - you only canceled it for me because I had slightly more favorable odds and that's it.

How is that ever ok or acceptable to do? You cannot just cancel a bet for 1 person and not for everyone else, that's not how it works and is wrong in many ways.

So please stop claiming a bunch of random & inaccurate explanations for wrongly canceling this bet in advance. It should never have been canceled in the first place, and because the player I bet on won the match then it should be 100% counted as a win.

2nd, I was definetely not aware of any mistaking odds - because at the time I did not believe it was a "mistake". As I explained several times already, I can give you 10+ reasons for why it would make sense for Altamirano (De Jong's opponent) to be the higher favorite for this match. For example, he is older by 5 years, much more experienced at the challenger level, and has a much higher career ranking than De Jong.

So him being placed at 1.4-1.5 favorite to win and De Jong being 2.6 was not very surprising for me and did not feel like a mistake at all. There are many reasons why this would make perfect sense and at the time I did not think it was a mistake by you or by other gambling sites that also had this match. In fact, during the match the 2nd set was very competitive and could have gone either way if Altamirano would have held his serve at 4-5 to make the score 5-5. At 5-5 he would have had a good chance to win the 2nd set, and then anything could have happened in the 3rd. So him being a 1.4-1.5 favorite & De Jong being at 2.6 is very realistic and understandable. I do not consider this to be a mistake or technical error at all.

And I can guarantee you that this situation has nothing to do with any kind of "fraudulent or unlawful use of services".

3. You also said:

"The above-mentioned scenario showcases the fact that extra winning would not be granted to the user, as the possible winning amount was calculated by coefficient inaccuracy."

First off, this sentence implies that the "extra WINNING" would not be granted. But the STAKE of the bet must be fully granted/returned in the case of a bet cancelation for whatever reason - whether it because of a coefficient inaccuracy, a withdrawal, retirement, bad weather, doesn't matter. Any time a bet gets canceled, you need to return the bettor their full stake of the bet. And you still have not done that.

And I'm sorry, but I had waaaaay more than 0.0006 BTC remaining on my bet as the stake - I had 0.0672 BTC at 2.6 odds, which is equivalent to $2650 right now. It is the biggest bet I ever made online.

You also gave me the option to partially cash out any % of my bet the evening before the match if I wanted to, and I decided to cash out 50% and keep the other 50% open. You gave me this option yourself volunarality according to your own rules (+ the ability to cash out everything in full for 0.238 BTC and profit ~0.1 BTC on the stop if I wanted to), and now you are trying to take this back and keep it to yourself?

How is that fair or ethical in any way?

That's like giving your best friend an expensive gift for their birthday (like a brand new iPhone) with them graciously accepting it, and then a few days later FORCEFULLY taking it away from their hands & keeping it to yourself without their permission or consent (aka stealing) because you both got into some stupid argument. However, the MOMENT you gave your best friend that brand new iPhone, it is now 100% their asset, and taking it away from them in a forceful manner without their permission or consent does not only break all moral, ethical, and social rules - but all FORMAL rules too as it is 100% ILLEGAL and would be considered stealing, where you can be put in jail for that.

That is exactly what you are doing against me in this situation.

I do not agree with this decision at all because it is unfair, unethical, and goes 100% against all my values, beliefs, and morals as a human being and as a very honest & fair person.

If you canceled the bet in advance then you should have returned my full stake right away, but even more than that the bet should have never been canceled to begin with, and I deserve to be rewarded for winning this bet.

And believe me that if my player lost this match, I would have NEVER complained about this or brought it up. I would have moved on as I always do anytime I lose a bet. But this case is different and it is not right for you to cancel a bet like this just because the odds changed, because it happens every day and is beyond my control.

It's just part of the game, someone always gets better and more favorable odds than someone else before the match or game starts. The only time when it makes sense to cancel a bet is if there is a withdrawal in advance, a retirement during the match, or match postponement due to weather.

So please reconsider your decision and do the right & honorable thing in this situation by counting my bet as an honest win and compensating me for the full amount instead of only 0.0006 BTC.

It would be a great sign of your goodwill and reputation, and I would be very grateful for that.

Thank you in advance and I look forward to seeing you do the right thing,

EpicChamp

People earn bread from their signature campaigns and other stunts so you better stop complaining about them. I know you are right here but the thing is that no one cares and some reputed paid puppets will red trust you soon. You will find absolutely no support as you can see despite everyone agreed with you on your threads, that's because FJ has a lot of hold here in the forum among trusted members and they will do anything to project FJ.