Posting in bold to differentiate my posts

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

Wall of text

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Now, our direct response to the post in question:

Claiming that more and more secure hashing algorithm would make the coin more economically viable is like claiming the US government would improve the dollars exchange rate by making it more difficult to counterfeit. The assumption is extremely weak compared to much larger market movements (inflation) that the cryptocurrency community largely ignores. There are many benefits to an extremely complicated hashing equation, but those benefits are past the marginal return for innovation in this community, and compared to the complete lack of economic innovation.

Does this mean that we wont experiment with the possibility? Of course not, we will definitely engage in emerging advances to the code. But for this week, this period and second in time, and this coin, we think that our energy is best spent providing the best business, interest, and service around the coin that is possible and reliable, and experimentation can happen once sufficient improvement to the market and community has happened.

Quote from: TheMightyX on March 08, 2014, 10:10:41 AM

No new features

Weve released plenty of information about the things this coin does that no other coin has even attempted, much less been successful at. If the sole feature a user cares about is the mining statistics (which are one very small part of what makes a currency economically viable) then they will be blinded to the real innovations behind this coin. This is addressed as a problem with the community in our whitepaper.

Having new features does not mean continually increasing the security of the algorithm. It can mean adding new features that increase the usability and longevity of a coin. If your one defining feature is "hey the price will keep going up!" how will you really compete with counterparty or etherium?
The purpose of cryptocurrency is not just to make money, all though that may come as a shock to you. The ultimate purpose of cryptocurrencies is to be used as a currency. If your coin is not competing in this regard it has no long term potential, only short term gains.

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

Quote from: TheMightyX on March 08, 2014, 10:10:41 AM

No accountability (identification, recourse)

What we are doing is likely to upset the old regime of scams. We use anonymous names to protect ourselves, but our accountability can be found in the exchange rate and block explorer, where any user can watch the market movements and wallet movements to keep us in check.

Additionally, the word "recourse" is not properly used here. Webster defines it as: "an opportunity or choice to use or do something in order to deal with a problem or situation" If the problem is a failure of our development team to maintain this coin, you are left with the same options that users of almost any other coin (easily 90% of hte existing coins, maybe more) to do with your coins. That is, by definition, your recourse. Additionally, you could offer to provide the same services we failed at, if you are capable of it.

The word "recourse" was used correctly in the sense that if you were to run off with (dump) the investment fund at your convenience we would have no recourse. You would potentially destroy the coin and everyones time and money invested would become worthless.
I find this line shocking and eye opening:

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but our accountability can be found in the exchange rate and block explorer, where any user can watch the market movements and wallet movements to keep us in check.

Really? so if you turn out to be mistrustful in the end we can look and watch you selling off your investment fund on the block explorer? Talk about accountability!! This offers no recourse, and no accountability in the event of malicious actions.
So my argument still stands.
This is not chump change you are talking about here. You are expecting people to trust you with millions and millions of dollars and your first thought is to try to discredit my concerns? That image seems quite fitting now. Why fix life now? Fix life tomorrow.
You want people to trust you with millions of dollars? You should be incorporating a company and filing paperwork. Proving your identity. Don't give me this "protecting my anonymity" crap.
Isn't your "anonymity" worth several million dollars?
Trust me with 10 million dollars; I will give you my name, address, phone number, I'll come to your house and take a picture with you. I'll let you stand in my bedroom and watch me while I sleep. This is not childs play here, this is real world kind of money.
You expect people to just trust you with this kind of money are you fucking kidding me?
The fact that instead of addressing these concerns you are blowing them off because "we wrote some stuff in the whitepaper" is just shocking.

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

Quote from: TheMightyX on March 08, 2014, 10:10:41 AM

No valid use except as a speculative asset

All currency is purely a speculative asset, including Bitcoin and Litecoin. Value comes from the expectation it will be exchangeable (and expectation of the costs of that exchange) in the future, which is speculation. Since AIRcoin doesnt have any transaction fees, its likely that it would have even more valid use than most other coins, since it would have a baseline expected return equal to or greater than 0, since there is not guaranteed loss through transfer.

So this, as well, is not correct.

Don't twist my words. Bitcoin is speculative but it also functions as a currency in the real world. Bitcoin can be exchanged for real items, goods and services. Air can not. When your coin is actually used as a currency I can see the price climbing to such heights, but for a coin with a cap of 1 billion to start at .00115 is insane.

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

Quote from: TheMightyX on March 08, 2014, 10:10:41 AM

Come on people, lets be realistic here. A few satoshi's sure, but .00115 BTC/AIR?

Anyone who mined AIRcoin and wishes to sell below ~.00115 BTC/AIR (or higher depending on the difficulty when they mined the coins) is going to take a loss compared to mining any other coin. So if you do believe that coins will be sold at those prices (remember, the price is determined by what people will buy and sell at and nothing else) then you have basically told every miner of our coin that they are wasting their time and energy. I think they, as well as our team, would strongly disagree with that. This same relationship between ease of mining and per-coin exchange rate is a very STRONG assumption, and can be observed on both ends of the spectrum with 42Coin and Dogecoin.

So only having few satoshis of worth isnt incorrect as much as it is certainly extremely unlikely, and those who would have to act to cause such a thing to happen have strong incentive not to do so.

It seems you are assuming that all coins are equally profitable to mine? This is not the case. You can't say "well you would get x number of BTC per MH mining this other coin so the price of our coin should be x per MH".
Why should a coin that is just released be as profitable to mine as say vertcoin or dogecoin?

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

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I don't really doubt that they will follow through on their promise at least initially.
But when and if that fund grows to $10,000,000 then what?

With the business minds we have, we can generate $10,000,000 of capital through they booming Venture Capitalist market. Anything over $1,000,000 seems a lot to the normal person, but in the financial world, it's not a fortune: it's the price of entry.

To quote the Whitepaper again,

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The reflection is awful, and in this point of view, how trifling, how ridiculous, do the little paltry cavilings of a few weak or interested men appear, when weighed against the business of a world.

Very unrelated but yes, in the venture capital world this is nothing; but in the venture capital world you know who you are giving money to. You have their names and addresses. You have signed legally binding contracts. You have legal recourse. It is much easier to trust someone when you know if they break their word and run off with the money you could sue them.

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

Unfortunately, the post descends quickly after this:

Quote from: TheMightyX on March 08, 2014, 10:10:41 AM

This is blind trust. In fact this is less than blind trust because for 50,000 years we know humans have been humans and will continue to be humans. This is trusting that just this once, humans will not be human.

Claiming what is human nature and not human nature is absolutely absurd when it comes to finance, which is wholly an unnaturally phenomena. I am certain they said the same thing when the first Banks, the First Corporations, the First governments, the First Books, the First Businessmen, the First Tribes, and the First Religions were created. We cant trust humans to do anything other than sleep, eat, and procreate until they die! Thats all they can be certain of doing in the last 50,000 years! It is at this point where the post forgets all reason.

Pump and dump scams are easy, have little profit, and will only speed up the process before this entire market is closed down by regulation. The real profit is in maintaining the strongest internally supported coin, until that coin become an exception to the regulatory position. This would both prolong the period of deregulation and improve the entire communitys status in comparison to the rest of the far more organized financial world.

Claiming that human nature plays no part in the business world is entirely more absurd. Thinking that lust, greed and jealously don't affect and mold our lives is plainly ignorant or delusional. You have listed a bunch of things and said that people must have been just as skeptical when they first appeared. These things aren't related but the government one I find interesting. It can be argued that it is just this very reason why they were created. Governments were necessary to protect the freedoms and liberties of its people, because people could not be trusted to not act in ways that were not malicious. We needed to group together to protect ourselves from other peoples. This is why we have governments, because humans are human. We created laws and rules to help guide and evolve our people from uncivilized animals constantly warring with each other into the generation we see today. I'm sorry that you don't see the logic behind this. Attacking my views or my concerns is only detrimental to your cause.

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

Quote from: TheMightyX on March 08, 2014, 10:10:41 AM

This doesnt warrant a real response, but I hope that in retrospect, it becomes clear that it doesnt, in any way, improve the criticism of the post.

So we wish to make a statement to our users and their concerns: We will respond. We will discuss it, and if you bring up good points, our development team will learn from it. But if you do not advance from our response, and you return with an even less informed response, we will note it and we will act on it as well. If your concerns are already addressed professionally and reasonably, either support it or leave it. You do the community no good if your further posts are less helpful than your earlier ones, and there are currencies that do, indeed, need your criticism far more. We want to provide as much help and service as we possibly can.

- Alexander

I see that I am not human, and my concerns are unwarranted and stupid. I am just an ignorant fool for critical thinking and not following the herd. Please forgive me for ever questioning your moral compass and future intentions which you can prove to us without a shadow of a doubt are pure and beneficial to the community. When you get back from the future in your time machine I'd like to borrow it thanks.

My concerns were NOT addressed reasonably or professionally. Pointing at a paper your wrote and saying "trust us because we wrote things" is neither intelligent nor reasonable.

From your post I get an impression that you work in the financial industry with large sums of money. Your view of the situation is biased in the fact that these may be normal everyday sums of money. Your bias may also be incorrect because in the financial industry there is accountability and liability. You may deal with millions of dollars, but never, EVER, are you just handed several million anonymously and asked not to abuse it.
If your intentions are good, you have misjudged the laymans view of this size of money being entrusted to you with no recourse.
If your intentions are not good, you already know this is a large amount of money and are trying to discount it as otherwise.

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

If AIRcoin launched at our current expected rates, the market capitalization would be $1,765,060, or #26 on Coinmarketcap. As pointed out in the first half of this point, TheMightyX is very wrong on the definition and assumptions of what market capitalization means.

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Hey you're right, I was tired and didn't think it through there for a second. Marketcap @ 2 million is reasonable, the premine though (even with the intended purpose of facilitating trading) is excessive. It will definitely allow them to manipulate the market as they said they will do - they control 96% of it right now and that control will go down by only about 3% a month at the current rate. Which means that after a year they still control around 62% of all Aircoins in existence (provided that they don't make gains by trading). Don't even know what to think about it anymore, just seems weird.

Don't mince words. The overrall market cap was what I was referring to and I hope you and anyone with an IQ above 80 knew that.
(i.e. at .00115 all the coins in existence would be worth 1150000 BTC or roughly $747,500,000 if all coins were released on day one. Not just the current market cap of available coins).

Quote from: AIRcoin on March 09, 2014, 07:55:18 AM

Since the premine amount is used to manage pump and dump expenditures, it is effectively a mechanism to distribute coins into the market without lowering the exchange rate (or to purchase them back at a higher exchange rate). If we chose a smaller premine, we would have to concede a lower (and decreasing) exchange rate in return. We found this to be unacceptable for an economically viable coin.

However, the entire premine amount will be documented, and is currently available to view in the block explorer. Gains on trading will be released on a regular basis along with data about how the coins have been invested, it is our intention that the more transparency we have on the issue, the greater support (and accountability) we will have from our users.

Posting documented information about where coins are or where they are going does not alleviate the valid concerns people have with entrusting nameless, faceless entities with millions of dollars. Just like watching bitcoins stolen from your wallet, you can watch them go indefinitely, but you can never get them back.

Please don't discount my concerns as inflammatory or misguided. Yes I did support this concept at one point in time and still do to an extent. But I have every right to change my opinion after consideration.